Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament 2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament
View Poll Results: Who Will Challenge Magnus Carlsen for the 2016 Chess World Championship?
Viswanathan Anand
6 15.79%
Anish Giri
1 2.63%
Levon Aronian
3 7.89%
Fabiano Caruana
16 42.11%
Sergey Karjakin
5 13.16%
Hikaru Nakamura
4 10.53%
Peter Svidler
2 5.26%
Veselin Topalov
1 2.63%

03-27-2016 , 04:05 PM
So Caruana didn't know how to win RB V R in a theoretical won position. At least it seemed he could just in time win the rook before the 50 move rule. Btw one can not trust Nalimov in these things as it doesn't take Fide rules into account. To be honest it is damn hard to calculate that ****ty ending. I have tried and failed many times. That is also one reason why I always forget how the correct method goes, as the moves seem to be straight from an elevator.
Though it is more important to study how to save that ending. I have known for some time that there are tricks to spoil the defensive method Svidler used, and make him think for at least a little bit. And thinking is bad okay.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 04:24 PM
RB vs R is winnable???!??!
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 04:27 PM
Despite Svidler talking about it a few times, did he get a definitive answer on wheter or not it is legal to get up from your seat and look at the board sideways? It makes it easier to find the correct defensive pattern, but is it allowed?
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 04:34 PM
My guess is FIDE doesn't address it because no one thought of it, but now that it's come up it will immediately be banned because FIDE is like if North Korea was a chess authority
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 05:02 PM
Wait, that was winning? Jfc, bow much equity did Fabi have right after the time control today? Jfc
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 05:30 PM
OK so apparently the defense is a draw but it's very tricky and Svidler late in the defense made a "losing" move but Fabiano isn't an endgame tablebase and wasn't able to deliver mate before the 50th move
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PyramidScheme
OK so apparently the defense is a draw but it's very tricky and Svidler late in the defense made a "losing" move but Fabiano isn't an endgame tablebase and wasn't able to deliver mate before the 50th move
Caruana had no clue how to continue, and it was a drawn position in the end.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PyramidScheme
RB vs R is winnable???!??!
Wikipedia says:
Quote:
It is generally a theoretical draw, but the rook and bishop have good winning chances in practice because the defense is difficult. Ulf Andersson won the position twice within a year, once against a grandmaster and once against a candidate grandmaster; and grandmaster Keith Arkell has won it 18 times out of 18 (Hawkins 2012:193). In positions that have a forced win, up to 59 moves are required (Speelman, Tisdall & Wade 1993:382). Tony Kosten has seen the endgame many times in master games, with the stronger side almost always winning (Kosten 1987:11). Pal Benko called this the "headache ending" (Benko 2007:154).

Computer endgame tablebases show that 40.1% of the legal positions with this material are theoretical wins, but that includes many unnatural positions that are unlikely to occur in games. Edmar Mednis estimated that less than 4% of starting positions that occur in games are theoretical wins (Mednis 1996:80).
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumCage
So Caruana didn't know how to win RB V R in a theoretical won position. At least it seemed he could just in time win the rook before the 50 move rule. Btw one can not trust Nalimov in these things as it doesn't take Fide rules into account.
I haven't checked the positions before move 99 (am too lazy), but Fabi indeed got a theoretically won position after Peter's 102... Ka4? Fabi could have forced Peter to give the rook up (or be mated) on (or by) move 116, just before the 50-move rule would have triggered a draw.

This is confirmed by a tablebase site that includes DTZ50 (DTZ50 TBs calculate the depth to 'zeroing', i.e. a piece capture, a pawn move, a mate or a draw claim possibility, with the 50-move rule taken into account).

Here's the link to look up the position after move 102.

And it's indeed a textbook Philidor position, but the winning technique is rather complicated; fortunately, it has been covered in a Youtube videos by NM Alex Richter

Looking up the preceding position (just before Svidler's mistake) reveals that he had as many as 7 drawing moves (incl. Rh2 that would have been losing if Caruana had 4 more moves available before the 50-move role coming into play).

Last edited by coon74; 03-27-2016 at 06:08 PM.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 05:55 PM
anyone interested in a friendly bet on round 14?
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 05:56 PM
Dude would have more subs if he just made his avatar an attractive girl
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judit Bowlgar
anyone interested in a friendly bet on round 14?
I looked up the odds and removed the juice here are the fair friendly lines
Not interested in betting just providing the info

Karjackin +358
Caruana +690
Draw -190
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 06:11 PM
Giri is +172 to win, with vig.
This has to be considered. I consider it a flaw in the prize structure that it goes by place and not points, Topo has literally no incentive to try and win this game since he is in last no matter what. Furthermore for all we know depending on which players he hates more/less he might not be too upset about a loss. Granted Giri gonna Giri but that does look juicy to me
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 06:26 PM
What Caruana said at the press conference confirms how difficult the Philidor position is and how often even super-GMs forget how to convert it :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabiano Caruana
I've solved this Philidor position so many times, and I just forget every time what I'm supposed to do.

I had about five minutes, which isn't quite enough.
Edit: this goes into the same series of 'GM facepalms' as Ushenina's failure to mate with B+N.

Last edited by coon74; 03-27-2016 at 06:36 PM.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 07:05 PM
so what time does the game start tomorrow?
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-27-2016 , 09:28 PM
1PM GMT
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74
That's pretty cool, it sounds like that Arkell guy has studied this endgame hardcore.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 06:35 AM
The fact that the scenarios for tiebreaks are so ridiculous here--despite this being a totally standard tournament format and the cross-table not being nearly that bizarre--is absurd. I guess barely ranks on the list of FIDE flaws, but still.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Moocher
1PM GMT
so about 2:10 from now, excellent, can multistream the second half of the darts and the chess
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 08:41 AM
looks like caruana has a position with some possibilities which is all he could have hoped for this morning, with the WC match scheduled to take place in NYC i've got to think it's better for chess, generally, if fabi manages to pull it out
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 09:02 AM
wow, caruana has a 40 minute clock advantage despite them having bashed out 14 moves each in two minutes blitz style, hacks

hmm, maybe not 40m, chessbomb's clock seems off
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 11:23 AM
I don't have a problem with H2H as a tiebreaker, but really lame to have the qualifier decided by most losses instead of more chess.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 11:43 AM
hmm, that Re4 seems like a bit of a whoopsie
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 11:45 AM
The broadcast is so bad. Karjakin/Caruana are (presumably) right at the time control, and instead of saying anything about that, some guy keeps pressing Anand with things like "Hey, you're old. Do you think you're too old to play good chess? How much longer do you think you'll be able to play good chess? OK, but is it hard to play good chess now that you're old?"

And this comes after 15 minutes of the same guy asking the same questions of Topalov.

These were interesting interviews with interesting people, but it could have been on tape delay or something. These FIDE broadcasts are always so bad that I am actually offended.
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 11:45 AM
Fabi will see that Re4 in nightmares, as well as yesterday's endgame

GG.

Ironically, Karjakin's suit now has an ad badge of a Russian real estate developer whose customer I might have to become eventually as there are too few cheap alternatives here
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote
03-28-2016 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayo
The broadcast is so bad
by watching the broadcast you are condoning the broadcast
2016 World Chess Championship Candidates Tournament Quote

      
m