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Old 05-10-2018, 11:50 AM   #26
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

What site are you talking about?
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:30 PM   #27
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

BackgammonMasters, PlayGem
both equally rotten, I can almost predict what comes. The number of "designer shots" is mind boggling. If the opponent needs 5 to come in the only available slot and 4 to knock out my checker - he will get 54. Or whatever he needs to get. The odds are 1:18! It happens daily. Sometimes it seems like every game has unbelievable odds.
If I knew how to record my games and bothered to do so you would laugh yourself silly.
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:36 PM   #28
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

I think the longer you play without spending any money the more they discourage you,
But how do you explain people with several millions in balance when the highest you can win is 200 in case of BGmasters. It would mean the player would have to win many thousands of games at the highest stakes. When I see a player with a similar balance I know miracles will happen, 66 galore, sometimes as much as five or more, impossible shots etc.
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Old 05-10-2018, 08:18 PM   #29
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

BTW, can you calculate the odds of losing twice with one checker against opponent's 15? That has to be a world record.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:23 AM   #30
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

As if to prove my point, this very minute I am bearing off and ahead and the opponent gets once again 66 55 44.
But I pretty much knew this was going to happen because I was playing a beginner and the site wants to encourage him.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:45 AM   #31
bleep69
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

You aren't getting any responses because we all agree. Money play online is a fool's game, it is too easy to cheat.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:46 PM   #32
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Why don't you just stop playing on these sites?
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:24 PM   #33
midiboy
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

I stopped playing on Backgammon Masters awhile ago for the very reasons you discussed.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:54 PM   #34
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

And play where? Anytime a site has something to sell it will be rigged.
I tried a few others but the dice pattern seemed to be the same. They all have certificates of randomness which is laughable.
.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:56 PM   #35
deh
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

I play at backgammon ace (https://pr.heroz.jp/backgammon/about.html)

It is a mobile app (android phones + tables, iphone, ipad).
It also can be run in a blue stack simulator or nox app player under Windows or on a Mac.

The money is almost not involved, you have to pay for chips. You cannot get the money you win out of the app.

I import all my games to XG (http://www.fishbust.com/bgace) which gives me the stats and ability to work on my errors.

After ~2500 games, my average luck is insignificant (-0.0017).

The average luck of another player I know is even closer to 0.

Judging by stats (and not by anecdotal evidence), the dice are random. However I constantly see people complaining about the dice. As a rule, on backgammon ace those players all have very high error rates.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:34 PM   #36
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

This morning I opened a new account with PlayGem. As a newbie PlayGem instantly put me into "To be encouraged" tier and the whole day I have been getting the most incredible rolls, just like the ones I complained in my previous posts. Anecdotal? Sure, but there is a steady pattern and predictability.
If a BG site has something to sell (chips, play for money) they will manage the "randomness" of the dice.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:41 PM   #37
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Just lost another game with one checker out against his 15. Another world record.
Can anyone beat it? Three times!
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:57 AM   #38
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fresedo View Post
Just lost another game with one checker out against his 15. Another world record.
Can anyone beat it? Three times!
Sounds like you should stop playing on this site.
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:06 PM   #39
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

You are certainly right, it feels a little bit like the story of the man who is hitting his finger with a hammer and when his friend asks why is he doing it he replies: but it feels so good when I stop.
Just to keepmy up my world record, this morning I lost another game when I had one checker on board against his 15.
There must be dark forces at work
Four times now.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:13 PM   #40
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Just for the interest sake, could anyone run the position of one checker against 15 and calculate the odds?
Thank you.
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Old 05-22-2018, 04:00 PM   #41
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fresedo View Post
Just for the interest sake, could anyone run the position of one checker against 15 and calculate the odds?
Thank you.
You're about a 92% favorite.

I guess there are actually two things I don't understand:

(1) Why you continue to play on a site where the dice aren't fair.

(2) Why you continue to report the results to us. I think by now you've made your point.
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Old 05-22-2018, 04:26 PM   #42
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Thank you for the calculation.
I do not believe that this site is an exception, I have tried other ones and I seem to recognize the patterns on all of them. I find it very difficult to find a good unbiased site. I believe most are rigged.
I guess I keep reporting this because there are so many believers, including this forum, who believe in online randomness just like this "expert" :
>>People who cry about the dice online, are simply not fair-minded enough to see that they don't roll any better or worse than their opponents. Some people really do roll worse—it's because they play worse. The worse you play, the more bad rolls you are likely to get and the fewer good rolls. That is the definition of playing worse<<
My experience tells me there are two types of dice - real dice and then online dice.
After all this thread is named
Are online backgammon games rigged?
I have actually read an opinion that stated that online dice are more random than real ones. People have all kind of beliefs.

Last edited by fresedo; 05-22-2018 at 04:40 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-22-2018, 06:17 PM   #43
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

if you think that most sites are rigged it's probably you and not the sites, but keep fighting the good fight
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Old 05-22-2018, 06:35 PM   #44
fresedo
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Alpha, I guess you have not read my previous posts with examples.
But if you have such a good experience tell me where you play and I will be grateful to play on a fair site.

Last edited by fresedo; 05-22-2018 at 06:43 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:21 PM   #45
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

I'm not currently interested in playing online with mostly terrible opponents, but when I was, I played on playelephant.com (95% of my play now is against the bot and the rest is live)

I've heard gridgammon is excellent but never played there
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Old 10-04-2018, 11:14 AM   #46
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz18 View Post
Well, unike the OP, I am a advanced player with years of practice and playing tournaments and money games.
Last years I play just for fun.
Tried the Lord of the Board app and I can definitely say that there is something wrong with it.The bots are one thing. I can separate real player from bot that is playing at supernatural level.
I must clarify that in this app you can buy chips for money, so they try to empty your chips with this bot players.
Beside that, I can guarantee that some /paying users/ receive special set of rolls during the games.
Toay, for example, I have played with typical beginners player. Lots of simple mistakes.
We played more than 20 games in a row. I won 2 or 3.
I can't save and analyse the match there, but I know my game and can calculate the luck at some level. You cannot have that luck in 18 games in a row.
One game. I managed to fully close the board with 2 checkers hit and then he rolls 4 times 66. Common.
Thanks for this, I've been thinking I'm going nuts. I get an opponent utterly trapped, they throw the most bizarre combo that allows them to move. I'm well ahead, they throw 3 sets of 4 x 4. BKO is utterly rigged. I never buy coins, I believe that is set against you. I've played for years, never that well, 51% wins, but I've never felt so frustrated with crooked dice. I really thought it was just me but am relieved to find others thinking the same. I can go a dozen games against anyone and be hammered each time, then, as if by magic I win for the next 4 or 5. Any recommendations for a different app?
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Old 10-04-2018, 11:25 AM   #47
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fresedo View Post
BackgammonMasters, PlayGem
both equally rotten, I can almost predict what comes. The number of "designer shots" is mind boggling. If the opponent needs 5 to come in the only available slot and 4 to knock out my checker - he will get 54. Or whatever he needs to get. The odds are 1:18! It happens daily. Sometimes it seems like every game has unbelievable odds.
If I knew how to record my games and bothered to do so you would laugh yourself silly.

My exact experience yesterday, I predicted to my wife the dice the guy would throw to enter and blot, with only two options possible, he did exactly that! So relieved to find it's not just me!
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:36 PM   #48
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Angry Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Backgammon at PlayOk is definitely rigged.......too many times the ONLY roll possible to win or lose comes up. You can predict the outcome of many rolls in advance.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:45 PM   #49
peguula
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeshwate View Post
Backgammon at PlayOk is definitely rigged.......too many times the ONLY roll possible to win or lose comes up. You can predict the outcome of many rolls in advance.
any proff?
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:46 AM   #50
MasterCom7
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

I am posting my experience from playing real money BG online, starting from 2006:

I started playing at Play65 and GammonEmpire. Different clients, but same pool of players and same company. They promoted heavily all over the net, so they had a steady flow of players for a few years. They had a ranking system, so the weaker players would feel safer navigating the dangerous waters full of sharks.

But the orca was lurking for the sharks too.

The dice generator. It was smartly programmed to keep the statistical distribution normal in the long run, but manipulated in the short run to favor frequent use of the cube by the players and increase the average amount played, so they could increase their share from the commission.

Not only that, there were every kind of cheater players to be found, using every method imaginable (and not imaginable) to trick you, during playing and in the idle time too.

Botters, disconnecters, liars, foul talkers, name callers, you name it.

I remember one time, a girl (or a guy posing as one) started chatting with me, and she asked me if I had joined an alleged lottery that was going on. I immediately got suspicious, but I went on playing dumb to see where it would lead. I told her I was new and didn't know how to join. She offered to help me and asked me for my password. I kept playing dumb and replied I didn't have a clue what she was talking about. After trying for 10 min to convince me, she went away.

I tried other real money sites, like Backgammon Masters, BGroom and a few more, but they were much worse, filled with bots and no significant player pool.

Then I found PartyGammon and TrueMoneyGames, which were the only two sites with an "honest" dice generator that I ever played for money.
Of course, there were cheaters and bots there too, but by that time I had greatly improved my game and I have learned how to spot them after 2 or 3 games. I made a black list and I was avoiding them.

At the same time, I started playing for free (no money games) at GamesGrid, later GammonSite and FIBS, studying books and practising daily with GnuBG.
No cheating there, it was all nice, and it helped me hone me skill.

It took me about three years to break even and start winning, small amounts on GammonEmpire and higher amounts on PartyGammon.

Then, the money sites started closing, and the last one was my beloved PartyGammon in 2014.

In 2016, I decided to play on Facebook. The app with the best design was Backgammon Live, so I gave it a try, and at first, it was like stealing candy from a baby. 95% of the competition was average or below average.
But, after playing for 2-3 weeks, things changed completely.
The smartly programmed dice generator -that I had encountered in the past- once again was in my way. I went up 65 levels without ever paying a penny for chips, but in the process it was clear I became persona non grata.
The algorithms were against me, so I quit.

Now, I am playing against GnuBG -and not XG- mostly because I prefer the looks of it.

I am considering trying GridGammon. I hope there's decent people and high level there. I understand it's only for no money games. Can someone -who is a member- confirm this? And maybe suggest a way for a referral?
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