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Adjusted vs effective pip counts Adjusted vs effective pip counts

09-29-2020 , 08:23 AM
Hi everyone,

I am having a little troubling understanding the difference (if there is one!) between an adjusted and effective pip count. First of all, here is the situation as I understand it:
  • The effective pip count (EPC) is defined as the number of pips one must roll to bear-off, on average. For example, if one has only two checkers remaining, and both are on the 1 point, then the EPC is simply the expected value of a roll (so EPC = 8.167).
  • Adjusted pip count methods (e.g. the Thorp or Ward methods) are ways of summarising who is ahead in the race. You only compute your adjusted pip count method (e.g. using the Thorp method) so you can compare it to your opponent’s adjusted pip count (and make doubling decisions accordingly). Adjusted pip count methods are not intended to estimate the EPC; in fact, the numbers generated by Thorp and Ward will generally underestimate the EPC.
I was wondering whether everything above is correct. In particular, am I right in thinking that the Thorpe and Ward adjusted pip counts will generally underestimate the EPC?

Many thanks in advance!

Itzhak
Adjusted vs effective pip counts Quote
09-29-2020 , 10:59 AM
The Thorpe and Ward counts date back to the late 1970s/early 1980s. They were good in their day but have been superseded by the Keith Count and iSight Count, which are pretty easy to use and more accurate.
Adjusted vs effective pip counts Quote
09-29-2020 , 04:37 PM
Many thanks for letting me know! I will give these a look.

Incidentally, am I right in thinking that these methods will generally give lower numbers than the effective pip count? I would have assumed this since they do not attempt to account for the 'normal' wastage that is involved while bearing off, even from ideal positions. (I am basing my remarks on Thorp/Ward but assume that this extends to improved adjusted pip count methods).
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09-30-2020 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie
The Thorpe and Ward counts date back to the late 1970s/early 1980s. They were good in their day but have been superseded by the Keith Count and iSight Count, which are pretty easy to use and more accurate.
I remember reading in Philip Martyn´s book that Thorpe introduced his pip count method at a gambling seminar in Las Vegas in 1970 or 1971. At the time I read this in the mid 70´s, I had no clue who Edward Thorpe was.
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09-30-2020 , 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_free_lunch
Many thanks for letting me know! I will give these a look.

Incidentally, am I right in thinking that these methods will generally give lower numbers than the effective pip count? I would have assumed this since they do not attempt to account for the 'normal' wastage that is involved while bearing off, even from ideal positions. (I am basing my remarks on Thorp/Ward but assume that this extends to improved adjusted pip count methods).
I think this is true definitionally. EPC counts attempt to ADD wastage to the raw count, so I don't see how you would ever get lower numbers?
Adjusted vs effective pip counts Quote

      
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