Your Bible says that it does follow. Read it sometime.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

You have your good tree giving bad fruit.
Can't have God's contemporaries see him backslide like that now can we?

If you cannot see the perfection of God's systems around you, how can you even begin to understand God or the Bible.
No wonder you make so much crap up and add to scripture all the time..

Regards
DL

Then they are deluding themselves and lack the intelligence to recognize a threat from a tyrant..

There is only heaven or hell.----His way or burn forever.

Regards
DL

This does not respond to my point. It just shows that you are using a non-standard definition of free will,or at least one different from the rest of us itt. Do you want me to give you the definition that doesn't make us delusional or dumb?

Have at it.

Regards
DL

You are simply reasserting the same baseless claim without adding any relevant evidence. The "tree" that brings forth evil fruit in Matthew 7:18 refers to humans. Like I said, God creates only good fruit, man (the bad tree) makes it evil. The citation is actually evidence against your our claim.

Do you believe in the logical validity of syllogism?

God made man
Man made evil
therefore God made evil

It seems to me that saying man made evil is just talking about the proximate cause, the ultimate cause - indeed, by definition, ALL ultimate causes - come from god.

God is not the ultimate cause for everything, otherwise there would be no free will. God made man, but he does not make man make evil. Man's free will decision to go against God is the ultimate cause of evil.

+1

/thread

Only to fools who cannot follow a logic trail.

Regards
DL

Only if you cherry pick the way you do.

Nehemiah 13:18
Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city?

Jeremiah 19:15
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it,

Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Regards
DL

Easiest to just go to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

"Free will is the apparent ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Historically, the constraint of dominant concern has been the metaphysical constraint of determinism."

Though I guess your definition has merit: "Those who deny that determinism is relevant are classified as compatibilists, and offer various alternative explanations of what constraints are relevant, such as physical constraints (e.g. chains or imprisonment), social constraints (e.g. threat of punishment or censure), or psychological constraints (e.g. compulsions or phobias)."

Though as I said, this is not the definition others of us in this thread are using. So when someone says that God gave us free will and they are referring to free will as I first defined, you can't say they are wrong by using the second definition I provided. That's just equivocating on the phrase 'free will.'

Also, I'd appreciate if you would stop implying that we lack intelligence and are fools.

This message is hidden because Greatest I am is on your ignore list.

If God didn't create the universe there would be know evil.

I will when those who lack intelligence and are fools recognize that the threat of hell is quite the heavy constraint.

Is it?

Regards
DL

I would urge you to reconsider. He's not a troll. He will, however, make you consider your own position on the given matter.

Thanks.

Not that one as well as most literalists and fundamentals.
He cannot get past dogma, tradition and his belief in fantasy, miracles and magic.

Easier to call me a troll and run away to his fantasy land.

Regards
DL

The above doesnt make sense

On what you have previously said, we can infer the following-
God only creates good fruit
god created man
therefore, man is a good fruit

How can a good fruit create a bad fruit(evil). Im kind of getting lost in the trees and fruits analogy but you can see my point?

So just to be clear, you're not going to respond to my real points, but you do plan on continuing to insult other posters?

Not from his denial mind set.

He will insist that his logic of 2 + 2 = 5 is quite correct.
God can do anything he likes. He is after all, God and if God says the answer is 5, it is beyond question.

Regards
DL

If I insulted anyone then let them speak.
They would of course have to show that a threat of eternal punishment does not effect ones free choice.

Regards
DL

I am speaking, and I already responded to that point of yours. The cliffs is that you're equivocating on the phrase free will.

Huh?

If you can show how punishment has no effect on free will then do so.

I can KIS for you.

If you have a child and your tell him he is free to make his bed or not, then tell him that if he does not, you will ground him for a month, does he really have a free choice ?
Or is what you are giving him a threat?
My way or grounding is basically what you are telling your child, IOW.

Regards
DL

Of course he does. There is always a choice to make, because that choice may become less desirable due to certain consequences doesn't make it any less of a choice. Existentialism FTW.

Yes, but free will is at least hampered when not presented with a dilemma (assuming the choice is between desirable options). If I offer you the choice between a perfectly cooked Rib-eye, or a perfectly cooked T-Bone, both of which you find appealing, then it is your free will to choose between the two. If you are offered a choice between a perfectly cooked T-Bone and a turd sammich, the free will is hampered, as the decision is not between two appealing options. Ergo, no dilemma.

Oh, and you have to love me first if you don't want the t-bone, and will get the turn sammich by default.

I'm sorry I just don't see how this effects my freedom to choose. Hampered in what way? I weigh my options just the same. One choice being less desirable then the other does nothing to effect my freedom to choose between the two that I can see.

But, according to RLK, I just made the worst post in the history of RGT posts in the other thread (which is saying a lot) so its possible I'm just extremely off today.