Why would drinkable water be a scarcity on a planet designed for humans? - Page 13 - Religion, God, and Theology

Didn't God express regret about wiping out humanity before promising not to do it again? Doesn't that entail that at least one action was not so good?

No, that does not follow with logical necessity.

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Even if it is explicitly in the bible, I don't see why we need to stick to that definition for the purposes of this thread.

Well, unless we use agreed upon meanings for basic concepts, the discussion degenerates. If we're going to talk about God, I suggest using Biblical definitions.

Last edited by Concerto; 10-24-2010 at 04:55 PM.

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10-24-2010 , 05:31 PM

#302

seefut22

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,883

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Originally Posted by Concerto

No need for that. What I got works fine. You failed to exclude the possibility that the person trying to stop the earthquake is also doing God's will. God can want A and B, both of which He created, to do opposing things. In fact without this happening the universe could hardly exist.

Only by accident I suppose. Such complete ignorance of God's will has nothing to do with the actual situation, of course.

sorry but that would make him a prankster.

also stick to your beliefs.

"In fact without this happening the universe could hardly exist."

based on your beliefs nothing could "hardly exist" if god wanted it to.

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10-24-2010 , 05:46 PM

#303

Concerto

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,564

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Originally Posted by seefut22

sorry but that would make him a prankster.

If you have something more than a standardized response, e.g. a reasoned argument for why that would follow, feel free to post it.

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10-25-2010 , 04:39 AM

#304

seefut22

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,883

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Originally Posted by Concerto

If you have something more than a standardized response, e.g. a reasoned argument for why that would follow, feel free to post it.

OK fine.

Here is an apple tree.
There is no particular reason why this tree is here but it is.
Pls dont eat the apples.

Last edited by seefut22; 10-25-2010 at 04:39 AM. Reason: prankster

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12-16-2010 , 07:14 AM

#305

rizeagainst

banned

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,179

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Originally Posted by Jibninjas

Again, I think that this comes down to your definition of omni-benevolence. Madnak and I have discussed to almost ad nauseum. He wants to define it where suffering is never the path chosen. I think that the definition can (and is more easily intelligible) be where a path of suffering is chosen as long as the end result is the greatest good.

Example: Creating a world where suffering is possible given that this is the only way to achieve a relationship with one's creator (the greatest possible gift).

In other words, the end justifies the means.

This is also why I believe that the eternal torment hell held by many theists is incoherent with the picture of God that is painted in the bible. I don't think that you can find an example of God causing suffering for fun, or for no good reason at all.

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst

How can "creating a world where suffering is possible given that it is the only way to achieve a relationship with the creator" be true when most definitions of god define him as omnipotent?

In short, if god has the power to do anything, as defined by most theists, then he had the ability to create a universe where everyone could achieve a relationship with him absent of suffering, but he instead chose the universe with suffering.

Can I get an answer to this? Hint: by responding you will either limit your gods power or limit his love, and thereby rule out the Christian god on your own.

God either:

A) Has the ability to create any universe - one where no suffering was needed to achieve a relationship with him - but chose to create the current universe instead

or

B) Does not have the ability to create a universe where no suffering is needed to achieve a relationship with him, and therefore is not omnipotent

Neither of these options fall into the Christian definitions of god.

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