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Why do atheists care? Why do atheists care?

09-30-2009 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxising
Nice to see all of you aren't abysmally ignorant. Do you also know that in these places Christians caught with items like Bibles, or sacramental objects or having services in home churches are imprisoned, tortured, raped, killed? Or was that beneath your notice?

Yeah - living in Kansas is a real trial.
I feel like this response was directed at me, so I'll respond.
1.) Living in Kansas is much better than living in the places I think you are referring to.
2.) The fact that those places have less freedom then Kansas has nothing to do with policies in the state of Kansas, or how the state should be ran. It's an irrelevent statement. It's the same thing as someone telling you about their day and when mentioning they got a flat tire, responding by saying "you know, children are brutally murdered everyday."
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09-30-2009 , 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by shorn7
I think Buddha is on to something here and I completely agree.

Maybe the biggest problem is this: Religion by itself doesn't instruct people to specifically become terrorists, etc. However, there are unfortunately COUNTLESS examples of where humans have done atrocious things in the NAME of their religion because they have interpreted something in a way that would lead them to a poor conclusion.
+1.

Religion is an excuse to be inhumane and do things that you might otherwise find inexcusable. This is not to say that it is the only excuse. And this is not to say that it isn't also an excuse to do nice things. But why have it at all? If a.) there is not evidence that it is actually true, i.e. the magical / supernatural / worship / pray etc. junk, and b.) you can do good things without it, then why allow it to cloak bad deeds?

Take responsibility for yourself; if you do good, take credit for it! Don't do it for the greater glory of god. If you do bad, take credit for it! Forgive yourself, don't forgive yourself, move on, don't move on; its up to you. But inventing a father figure to officially give you a hug and a pat on the back is childish.

A Dallas man was just given the right to slaughter animals in his home by a federal appeals court. Because it is part of his religion. Well, either slaughtering animals in residential neighborhoods is okay, or it isn't. I don't care if it is his religion. If he wants to kill animals, it doesn't matter one iota that he cloaks it in priestly rights.

All that anyone can ever say about their religious beliefs is that they are't just speaking for them self, they are also speaking from the voice of authority; they are speaking from god!! "Oh no, I'm not calling you a fool; the bible merely says that a fool will scoff, just as you are scoffing."

If you can't say it from your own mouth, if you can't stomach it on your conscience for the rest of your life, maybe you shouldn't say it or do it.
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09-30-2009 , 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Hardball47
I can't speak for Christianity, but if you think that Islam instructs people to detonate themselves in suicide and torture/enslave, then your level of ignorance is astounding.

Like I said earlier, you mustn't generalize when you argue against religion.
Serious response: The following comes from this website:http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/swordverse.htm . Please correct me if this isn't an accurate reproduction of the original text. But from my eyes it doesn't look good for your argument.

Quote:
THE QURAN 9:1-8

Chapter (sura) 9 has a couple of different names (and transliterations). Usually it is called "Repentance", in Arabic (Al-Tawbah), or "The Ultimatum" or "Release" (Bara’ah). Below is Chapter 9, verses 1-8, from Dawood’s7 English translation of the Quran. For a Quran comparison, I’ll list these verses in a couple of different translations in appendix 1.

9:1 A declaration of immunity from God and His apostle to the idolaters with whom you have made agreements:

9:2 For four months you shall go unmolested in the land. But know that you shall not escape God’s judgement, and that God will humble the unbelievers.

9:3 A proclamation to the people from God and His apostle on the day of the greater pilgrimage:

God and His apostle are under no obligation to the idolaters. If you repent, it shall be well with you; but if you give no heed, know that you shall not be immune from God’s judgement.

Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers,

9:4 except to those idolaters who have honoured their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God loves the righteous.

9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.

9:6 If an idolater seeks asylum with you, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God, and then convey him to safety. For the idolaters are ignorant men.

9:7 God and His apostle repose no trust in idolaters, save those with whom you have made treaties at the Sacred Mosque. So long as they keep faith with you, keep faith with them. God loves the righteous.

9:8 How can you trust them? If they prevail against you they will respect neither agreements nor ties of kindred. They flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts reject you. Most of them are evil doers.
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09-30-2009 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Serious response: The following comes from this website:http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/swordverse.htm . Please correct me if this isn't an accurate reproduction of the original text. But from my eyes it doesn't look good for your argument.
There's a lot of bad sources and false sites out there, like a lot of things online so beware. That's one of them. Just remember that anything taken out of context can be easily misconstrued, but you're intelligent enough to already know that.

If you're serious about clearing up any misunderstandings, I'd recommend you visit a scholar with your queries, should there be a community where you live. And if there isn't, send me your questions and I'll do it for you. Unfortunately, I'm not very well versed, so I'm afraid I can't offer an expert opinion. I wish I could have been more helpful. Perhaps that's enough of a sign for me to learn more about my own religion. lol..
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09-30-2009 , 03:04 PM
are you saying someone registered (and is paying for) answering-islam.org only to post unauthentic passages? i admit it's possible, but i mean...

either way, another site (3rd hit on google for 'quran sura 9') pretty much echoes 9:5 and 9:8:

Quote:
9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Quote:
9:8 How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.
http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/009.asp

i suppose just picking up an actual copy of the quran and verifying this would remove your skepticism, or are you afraid of printed works being forgeries also?
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09-30-2009 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardball47
There's a lot of bad sources and false sites out there, like a lot of things online so beware. That's one of them. Just remember that anything taken out of context can be easily misconstrued, but you're intelligent enough to already know that.

If you're serious about clearing up any misunderstandings, I'd recommend you visit a scholar with your queries, should there be a community where you live. And if there isn't, send me your questions and I'll do it for you. Unfortunately, I'm not very well versed, so I'm afraid I can't offer an expert opinion. I wish I could have been more helpful. Perhaps that's enough of a sign for me to learn more about my own religion. lol..
And perhaps more importantly, anything can mean anything, as long as you claim the veto power on "context." Seeing a scholar for his opinion might (stress might) be better than just reading the first google hit you get, but there is some pretty absurd selection bias going on re: religious scholars, for obvious reasons. You are probably better off reading until you get bored and then forming your own conclusions.
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09-30-2009 , 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximum Rocknroll
A:

linky
Nice link.
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09-30-2009 , 09:20 PM
To answer the OP directly, I think we should note that this is an internet forum that people go to becaue the find the topic interesting and allocate some of their leisure time (or in my case work procrastination time) to these interesting topics. This goes for any forum.

I highly doubt most of these people are out in the real world trying to unconvert christians. People go to this forum particular to have these types of debates.
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09-30-2009 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dammetman11
Why do atheists care whether people believe in God or not? If they are so certain that there is no God why waste time arguing with fools? Shouldn't they be out enjoying their lives and not wasting one moment on something that is so meaningless to them?

Instead it seems like they care more about making sure everyone else does not believe with them...

I don't get this.
Well for me, I don't much care whether people believe in God or not, but I am curious about what they believe and why they believe what they do - and I do care about what actions they take based on those beliefs that may affect my life. I am not certain that there is no God - I am simply not convinced that there is a God. But there was a time when I did believe. And I enjoy reading the wide range of opinions and attitudes about the subject.

So for the most part, I don't care whether people believe in God, I am not certain there is no God, I am not wasting time, I am not arguing with fools, and I am enjoying my life immensely. But other than that, your post was spot on. Are you psychic?
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10-01-2009 , 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dammetman11
Why do atheists care whether people believe in God or not? If they are so certain that there is no God why waste time arguing with fools? Shouldn't they be out enjoying their lives and not wasting one moment on something that is so meaningless to them?

Instead it seems like they care more about making sure everyone else does not believe with them...

I don't get this.
How many atheists go door knocking spreading the "word"?
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10-01-2009 , 07:10 PM
Wow. I read through the first two pages. It made my brain hurt. It was like watching people argue with walls. Actually, "like" may be too weak of a word.

Then it hit me.

OP's op answered.

I would care if anyone religious had ever been convinced of anything. Arguing with someone who refuses to listen and learn from others isn't fun.
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10-02-2009 , 11:10 AM
The vast majority of atheists really don't care.
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10-07-2009 , 11:04 AM
Because God ruthlessly haunts.
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