Are you sure? Could it have been 9,000,000,001 or 9,000,000,007 or 9,700,000,000 or 4,000,000,000.

Its amazing to me that people have such definitive answers based on anothers supposed correct research.

There is no way you can say for sure your numbers are even close to correct unless you are dishonest with yourself.

Yes

No and No

Incorrect, there is a margin of error, but it is rather small. It's not like I'm just parroting something here, I am aware of how these numbers were arrived at and why they are valid. You can research cosmic background radiation and the Nobel prize they won for their calculations if you like, but this is hardly the place for me to try and explain it to you. The fact that our satellites stay in orbit and our GPS corrections work is evidence enough that the parameters they used for their calculations were valid, and I'm quite sure they double-checked their math.

.

1) Sluts are the greatest creation in this universe.

2) Babies are tasty.

That's all I got right now.

Distance of sattelites and their orbits and accuracy of movement has nothing to do with calcualting the age of the universe.

Well if you gotta REPRESENT, then by all means REPRESENT.....

Pletho, I was raised Jewish and believed in god as a child but now I don't because of my reasoning. Many atheists used to be theists fyi so they obviously saw enough reason to not believe in god.

Also, Pletho, you seem to believe in god because you cannot answer questions like "How did humans get here?" or "How was the universe create?". Only because you can't answer that question with science doesn't mean that god is the answer. That is like 16th century thinking.

lol

satellites and their motion is (another) check of GR which is what is used to calculate the age of the universe

the motion of satellites is not the input data of course, input data for this question comes from CMB

GR = General Relativity
CMB = Cosmic Microwave Background

Use wiki if you don't know what these are. Also maybe do a BS or MS in physics and read the article I pointed out for you before. And don't forget to send me your bankroll, assuming you're a (wo)man of your word.

the atheists i have surrounded myself with know quite a bit about the bible, the koran, the tanakh, the torah, and many other religious books.

through all the years i've spent in churches, i can't say the same about the believers i spent time with. maybe that's why they call them "believers" and not "knowers".

.

You're wrong.

Thats exactly why the Hebrews, in the old testament died and were killed all the time, instead of BELIEVING God, they went by their own reasoning, their own five senses knowledge which was sure to be opposite of Gods ways. They always were bi--hing and complaining, biblically its called murmuring. But when they followed the man of God they always succeeded because he became the man of God because he obeyed and believed Gods words and directions.

I would be the first to say that many atheist used to be somewhat believers in a God, but religion, meaning lies and man made traditions caused them to not believe anymore.

For the most part from what I have read on this forum not one of the atheist here has ever in their past exposure to the bible been taught TRUTH which explains why they do not believe anymore, why would they, the crap that denominations teach is amazing, some of its right and accurate but the majority of it, at least the main doctrines are way off base, so it makes no sense.

Look if all of you think they you will find the answers to life without God or without the bible then you will all die wasting your time looking in the wrong places for truth. If just ONE of you would spend the time to learn HOW TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE the bible, then you would begin to see something you previously would not have seen. You would begin to see that its not full of contradictions like those who are unknowledgeable about it claim.

I guy could read the bible all their stupid life and not understand it, there are principles that have to be understood. I cannot say it enough I guess, the bible is a SPIRITUAL book, which is not the same as other books.

Sure you can read it, memorize it and such but true spiritual understanding and knowledge comes from God, He takes the word and opens your understanding up, so you can undersatnd it.

All peoples understanding comes for the most part in layers, systematically, some things take more time, well the word when it is understood comparing spiritual words to spiritual words, and verses to verses systematically, you begin to understand.

I could sit here all day long and tell you this but unless someone has to balls to get off their big fat ego and listen, read, learn and obey, no one will learn a damn thing. You all will go around and around in circles for the rest of your life talking about the questions of life.........

No your wrong, science is great and has advanced our society with many great things and many evil things.

There is no way they can accurately calculate the age of the universe or the earth, notice I said accurately.

Either way, I have said repeatedly that man as we know him only has been around for 6000ish years, i never said that the earth was only 6000 years old, I do not believe that, I do know that before Adam and Eve, there was a long expanse of time which had other life forms not the same genetically as Adam and Eve nor the same lifeforce, meaning they were not animated the same way with soul life.

The people that lived at that time were the neaderthals and the like, also the dinasoaurs. There is biblical evidence of a age or time that support this if any one really wanted to know its not hidden.

Mainstream Christians are not taught stuff like this because why would they be? Denominations are mainly corporations now days and have a bottom line, they want to control people, and manipulate people, they need the money to survive, if they keep people guilty with their doctrines and fearful then then they can consitantly squeeze money out of them by offering forgiveness and other comforts.

I am not talking about trut Christianity by the way, very few people no about true Christianity.

I undersatnd that time, meaning a planet or star was in a certain point at a certain time is calculatable but the history of this universe is not calculatable, because they are missing variables to calculate with. They are assuming many things. How can you guys not know this?

Scientist make way too many assumptions.

Now all you need to point out is what these excessive assumptions are and you would have a shot at a legitimate argument.

Wow,

This seems to be the gang up on Pletho thread.

my 2c Pletho. .. go easy on the explanations.
Trying to explain things that require faith to accept is a mistake.
Your answers have logic problems and you come off as arrogant;
a statement/sentence/question like...
Ever heard of arrogance? is just trolling.
and hence the everyone vs Pletho.

I am not saying, stop believing or believe what others are saying.
I am saying stop trying to explain to others why you believe.
Trying to explain what happened before the big bang or why it happened
is just folly. Trying to explain to an atheist with proofs that
God exists is a lesson in futility.

Lay out the formula they use to calculate the universes age, you can do it complex but also you need to explain it in laymens terms then I will show you exactly where their assumptions come into play.....

I am not neccessarily trying to convince anyone of anything but simply that their logic holds no water, all I here is this and that no solid eveidence as in formulas explained in laymens terms, which I highly supspect is because they themselves just believe what someone else taught them. Not because they have researched or studied it themselves with great understanding.

I have and do study the bible, and not only can talk about it but can back up everything that I say from the word, sentence by sentence and line by line in english that anyone with a brain can read.

I am not attacking you, just commenting on others, I do appreciate your input. I am trying to see just how honest atheist will be when it comes to their reasoning, they seem to not like to be squeezed into a corner. If that happens they say something attacking towards Christians or Christianity or God or the bible.

lol, ok, please do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

Because atheists who understand that intelligence has nothing to do with it do not post in this forum.

Pletho,

saying

"line by line in english that anyone with a brain can read"

is also trolling.

it implies that if I do not agree with you that I have no brain.
(remember our old argument about hell etc.)

You do not need to do that to make your point.

I forgot our argument? But the no brain statement is a figure of speech meaning its simple to understand.

Wow, I thought I would have maybe a challenge at this, but the first line was a assumption, They speak in definative terms about the BIG BANG.

What they do not understand is that that is not a definitive fact. It is a assumption that is highly accepted among many people. Its not a fact.

They have hypothesized that all life had to start this way its not proven its hypothetical.

The big bang is their variable that isnt correct......and from what I can see all of their calculations of time are based on that theory, which is an assumption.

OMG also the term BIG BANG

Another hypothesis, or assumption or theory taught in definitive terms.....

I just read this also from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang:

Did you think I was making the assumptions part up?

our old argument was..

you said that Jesus went to Hell for 3 days.
I said that I never learned that. (i also did not believe it and I gave my explanation
and reason for it.)... Hell as a place for souls of people who comitted unforgiven mortal sins when they died, and Jesus I am pretty sure never commited a mortal sin.

you gave me biblical examples.. of where the scriptures said that say Jesus went to Hell.
I said that you must be reading the King James version or the 21st century King James
because all other versions do not use the word "Hell"

I just looked up something else that bothered me so I looked it up online about the Apostle's creed. it says on line 4 that he decended into hell! I have also read versions that say he decended into the dead.

"The final clause in this sequence, "He descended into hell," is the most controversial in the Apostle's Creed. Indeed, some denominations consider it optional or refuse to include it at all. The problem with this phrase begins with what it connotes. To some, the descent into hell represents the physical agony of death upon the Cross. It was hellish in its pain. To others, the word hell means Hades or Sheol, the collective abode of the dead, divided into Paradise or Abraham's Bosom--the state of God-fearing souls--and Gehenna, the state of ungodly souls. Thus the descent into hell may suggest that the Son of God carried the sins of the world to hell; or the Son of God carried Good News of deliverance to the godly dead such as Lazarus the beggar and the repentant thief. A third-century Syrian Creed speaks of Jesus, "who was crucified under Pontius Pilate and departed in peace, in order to preach to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the saints concerning the end of the world and the resurrection of the dead."



But later in the cofrence in Nicea 325AD they omitted it ...
either they did not believe in it or could not agree on it.

"The Nicene Creed is the most widely accepted and used brief statements of the Christian Faith. In liturgical churches, it is said every Sunday as part of the Liturgy. It is Common Ground to East Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, and many other Christian groups. Many groups that do not have a tradition of using it in their services nevertheless are committed to the doctrines it teaches."

one question for you i guess is what is your definition of Hell??
Now.. even the church is not 100% on this item. are you still so sure?!?

http://www.creeds.net/ancient/descendit.htm