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 Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

 09-11-2018, 08:03 PM #176 rjr777 journeyman   Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: flat earth Posts: 252 Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance? The number is derived from a ball w circumference of 24-25k miles The curve of the earth is never seen and doesn’t conform to this formula so where’s the curve? If my senses are wrong you have to prove it’s a ball that’s spinning the onus is on you
09-11-2018, 08:47 PM   #177
Aaron W.
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rjr777 The number is derived from a ball w circumference of 24-25k miles
Can you show me the derivation?

Quote:
 The curve of the earth is never seen and doesn’t conform to this formula so where’s the curve?
Except that is has been seen and does conform the formula. I challenge you to give your precise location when looking across the lake into Chicago, and then demonstrate that you are able to see things that you "shouldn't" be able to see.

Quote:
 If my senses are wrong you have to prove it’s a ball that’s spinning the onus is on you
Not really. I don't have any obligation (intellectual, moral, or otherwise) to prove to you that your senses are wrong.

All I'm doing is showing you that your logic is wrong. And there's no obligation for that. I'm just doing it because it's entertaining to me.

09-11-2018, 10:23 PM   #178
formula72
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,533
Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rjr777 So now we’re just responding w you don’t understand the subject enough? Ok enlighten me why planes shouldn’t have to dip their nose in order to fly level on a ball. So when a plane is on the under side of the ball in say South America it’s technically upside down right? How did it get to an upside down position without dipping the nose ? It has to stay level to the ground... the ground is upside down in South America if we live on a “ball” How do planes fly on the under side of the ball in the Southern “Hemisphere” And then fly into the northern “hemisphere“ always staying level with the ground? Wouldn’t at some point they need to follow the curve of the eartth?
It wouldn't do any good at this point.

The answer is clear-cut but it doesn't matter ATM. You had everything you need to figure it out on your own and it didn't work then.

2nd suggestion: Don't do the (this mountain should be under 5400 ft of curvature) bit. Some people here are good at math.

09-12-2018, 02:27 AM   #179
neeeel
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,655
Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rjr777 Y No one can replicate this magical force of “gravity” yet everyone parrots it as fact.. for so many mathematical minds I find it funny that everyone in here just accepts what they are told without actually being able to prove movement or curvature or replicate gravity.
Are you saying that gravity doesnt exist? If thats the case, in your flat earth model, what makes people stick to the surface of the flat earth?

09-12-2018, 08:21 AM   #180
rjr777
journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: flat earth
Posts: 252
Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by neeeel Are you saying that gravity doesnt exist? If thats the case, in your flat earth model, what makes people stick to the surface of the flat earth?
Relative density and bouyancy

You are denser than air around you so you go down air goes up... helium is lighter and less dense than air so it floats..

How come large heavy things never show any attraction to each other but we are supposed to believe gravity is possible. We can see magnetism on a small scale why can’t we see gravity on a small scale?

09-12-2018, 08:24 AM   #181
rjr777
journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: flat earth
Posts: 252
Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by formula72 It wouldn't do any good at this point. The answer is clear-cut but it doesn't matter ATM. You had everything you need to figure it out on your own and it didn't work then. 2nd suggestion: Don't do the (this mountain should be under 5400 ft of curvature) bit. Some people here are good at math.
Why don’t you actually explain things?

09-12-2018, 09:47 AM   #182
BeaucoupFish
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Aaron W. The obvious answer is that sometimes the earth is between the sun and the moon, and other times the moon is between the sun and the earth. Because that's how shadows work.
Just FYI, most Flat Earther's think that the shadow (phase) of the moon is from the Earth casting a shadow. That's probably why you might hear a confused question like "how is the sun and the moon both visible at the same time?"

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Last edited by BeaucoupFish; 09-12-2018 at 10:09 AM.

09-12-2018, 10:09 AM   #183
BeaucoupFish
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rjr777 How come large heavy things never show any attraction to each other but we are supposed to believe gravity is possible. We can see magnetism on a small scale why can’t we see gravity on a small scale?
rj, this is literally what the Cavendish experiment shows: weighty balls moving towards weightier balls!

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rjr777 Relative density and bouyancy You are denser than air around you so you go down air goes up... helium is lighter and less dense than air so it floats..
What happens to helium in a vacuum chamber?

Last Q (a good one, and it was brought up earlier):
Do you know how an equatorial mount works? If not, it'd be easier for you to look it up than for me to explain it here. You can watch timelapse videos that show how they track the sun (they only require one axis of rotation to track it). The question is, how do you think that could be possible under Flat Earth? Tracking the circular path of the sun that you described would require two axes of rotation (excluding from the central point).

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09-12-2018, 03:50 PM   #184
Aaron W.
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish Just FYI, most Flat Earther's think that the shadow (phase) of the moon is from the Earth casting a shadow. That's probably why you might hear a confused question like "how is the sun and the moon both visible at the same time?"
On that note, if the moon phases are the earth's shadow on the moon, then how does a lunar eclipse work?

 09-12-2018, 05:22 PM #185 well named poorly undertitled     Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: esse est coesse Posts: 76,247 Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance? The usual explanation for the fact that materials separate by density is that this is caused by gravity (e.g. it would not happen in a vacuum), so it seems like a non-starter to appeal to "relative density and buoyancy" as a non-gravitational explanation for gravitational phenomena.
09-12-2018, 08:00 PM   #186
Aaron W.
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Join Date: Sep 2002
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rjr777 Why don’t you actually explain things?
I feel as though I've challenged you on the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
Quote:
 I can explain the flat earth explanation for most of these things but I don’t have all the answers.
You haven't actually done this. Among other things, you've only offered speculations and not proofs. Even the minimal explanations you've offered are easily rebutted.

09-12-2018, 08:01 PM   #187
Aaron W.
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Join Date: Sep 2002
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Aaron W. On that note, if the moon phases are the earth's shadow on the moon, then how does a lunar eclipse work?
Does the moon generate its own light? Is it like a mini-sun, or is it something else? If it doesn't generate its own light, then where does the light of the moon come from?

09-12-2018, 08:10 PM   #188
BeaucoupFish
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Aaron W. Does the moon generate its own light? Is it like a mini-sun, or is it something else? If it doesn't generate its own light, then where does the light of the moon come from?
Yes, often the FE'er believes the moon generates it's own light. What's more, moonlight is cold. This is 'supported' my measuring the temperature of the ground in moonlight vs in moon shadow. To be fair, it's an odd phenomenon, but when you think about what's happening it makes more sense (e.g. you're not measuring moon light temperature but radiated heat from the ground, and ground in moon shadow has something causing the shade, which would also, probably, act as insulation or reflect heat back to the ground... at least that's how I understand it).

If you'd prefer our Flat Earther to answer your questions, I'll butt out. It's just a weird obsession I've had for a few months, so I've heard it all before.

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09-12-2018, 11:26 PM   #189
Aaron W.
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish Yes, often the FE'er believes the moon generates it's own light. What's more, moonlight is cold. This is 'supported' my measuring the temperature of the ground in moonlight vs in moon shadow. To be fair, it's an odd phenomenon, but when you think about what's happening it makes more sense (e.g. you're not measuring moon light temperature but radiated heat from the ground, and ground in moon shadow has something causing the shade, which would also, probably, act as insulation or reflect heat back to the ground... at least that's how I understand it).
Interesting. Are there other sources of "cold light" out there?

Quote:
 If you'd prefer our Flat Earther to answer your questions, I'll butt out. It's just a weird obsession I've had for a few months, so I've heard it all before.
I don't mind at all. I may not share your "weird obsession" but there is a sense of morbid curiosity of the type of mental machinations required of the beliefs. It reminds me of exploring some American fundamentalist Christian thinking. There's "some level" at which you can kind of "make sense" of it, but it requires one to ignore and assume a large number of things.

09-13-2018, 04:23 PM   #190
neeeel
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,655
Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rjr777 Relative density and bouyancy You are denser than air around you so you go down air goes up... helium is lighter and less dense than air so it floats.. How come large heavy things never show any attraction to each other but we are supposed to believe gravity is possible. We can see magnetism on a small scale why can’t we see gravity on a small scale?
no, what keeps you on the surface, if theres no gravity, you can just jump and fly off the earth.

09-13-2018, 05:54 PM   #191
tame_deuces
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Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by neeeel no, what keeps you on the surface, if theres no gravity, you can just jump and fly off the earth.
Not to mention that we can see gravity on small objects, and we have since the 1700s and the experiments are easily replicable. But, such details doesn't matter when there are conspiracies to affirm regarding flat earth. Conspiracies which have to assume that modern history is fake, modern technology is fake, natural science since the 1700s is fake and that pretty much everyone is either in on it or ignorant.

They also of course have to completely ignore all the easily available options to disprove their conspiracy. You can buy a trip around the world, you can pay to visit both the south and the north pole. Modern technology have long since made these things doable without too much in the way of preparation. None of these things are cheap, but compared to the stuff flat earthers actually HAVE collected money for - it's a drop in the bucket.

Of course, the list of of intuitive experiments you can carry out for cheap is even longer. You have to ignore all those as well.

We're beyond belief. We're into dysfunctional behavior: It isn't about getting to know the world or arguing your belief. Like most outlandish conspiracy theories it's about making the world simple, which will give an illusion of control. It doesn't matter if it is Zeitgeist (remember when these world were overrun by the Jesus = Horus crowd?), QAnon, Truthers or flat earthers. What they all have in common is that they might superficially seem like big webs, but they actually reduce the world to to very simple variables. They remove the unknown and the complicated, and anyone who who claims otherwise is either "in on it" or "stupid". And the aim isn't to make your theory better, it's about convincing others. After all, convincing others means you are worth listening to, right?

Actual conspiracies, like most of us know aren't elegant. They're messy, filled with incompetence, arrogance, greed and ambition in uneven doses. And they certainly don't make the world simple, rather they tend to make it even more unclear. Thus you get the ultimate irony: People who tend to believe outlandish fanciful conspiracies easily disproven as pure fiction will tend to ignore actual conspiracies.

09-14-2018, 03:05 AM   #192
pyatnitski
grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 423
Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance?

Thanks to this thread I just wasted fifteen minutes of my life looking at how flat earthers explain Foucault's pendulum. It was fairly disappointing in that they just say confused and obvious stuff - "they use hidden motors!" and the like, but I did find this comment quite funny.
Quote:
 Foucaults Pendulum was a failed experiment. It has been proven that it can not be the rotation of the earth that causes the swing, as during eclipses it has been reported the rotation of the pendulum would shift. This without a doubt proves it is not the earths motion that is causing the pendulum to swing. Flat earthers try explaining it away with magnetism, but to me it just makes no sense how magnetism properly works on a planar level. The only real explanation for the Foucault Pendulum is concave earth. It is explained by the rotation of the celestial sphere, magnetism, and etheric pressure.
Flat Earth is old hat it seems.

Hopefully I'll not look up anything more.

 09-15-2018, 11:26 AM #193 spanktehbadwookie Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: River Region Posts: 18,971 Re: Was the universe created by purpose or by chance? I don’t know. I do know I can create a purpose for the universe. I just did. Which is pretty cool that I, an individual organism in a supposable whole universe, can create purpose for a whole universe. Wait, can you? How can you not? Why tell a joke without the punchline? 🤣 Which purpose did I create? The purpose to ask.*rimshot*

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