Reading the thread on Christians playing poker is getting annoying with Pletho's sudden attacks on Catholicism simply because Jerok decided to post in that thread.

So, Pletho, please, if you want to rail against Catholicism (be it for what you view as idolatry, the crusades, persecution of those who don't believe in the Trinity, blah blah blah), put it in here. Better than to have it popping up all over the place and distracting from otherwise useful discussions.

Yeah, I'm not a mod. But really, you haphazardly spreading parts of the Word (especially when you insist on using KJV) out of context is just confusing and frustrating me.

With all due respect, Pletho can respond wherever the hell he likes.

Can you guys stop creating Pletho containment threads?

Mods?

Pletho CAN post wherever he wants, that doesn't mean he should. This thread represents merely my request and suggestion; I have no authority over Pletho or this board (despite the mandatory nature of my tone in the OP; that's more a product of my strong disagreement with his apparent lack of respect for other posters by declining to stay remotely close to on topic).

If Pletho wants to insist upon talking about Catholicism and idolatory in a thread about whether Christians should be professional poker players, he can do that, but it's probably not going to be constructive, and will probably put this forum into further disarray than it already is.

If Pletho wants to start his own new thread for every divergence he wants to make (rather than confining himself to containment threads), I'm fine with that. But, his present course of conduct is the equivalent of a politician getting interviewed about healthcare policy and deciding that's an appropriate time to talk about whether we should increase troops in Afghanistan. Permissible to totally change topics? Yeah, I suppose. Helpful to totally change topics? No, especially when you can go start the Afghanistan troop increase discussion on another channel right away.

From my post #16

On the surface it seems off topic, but its not, because you (Jerok) quoting a catholic catachism about gambling to poker players is as hypocritcal as the Catholic church ignoring and deleting one of the 10 commandments,

Thats my point for posting what I did.......the coversation grew from there when I started reading abunch of garbage about the Catholic.....

For the record, I dont hate Catholics at all, I do detest the traditions and doctrines that are taught by the Catholic church, especially when someone tries to say that the traditions of the Church and the words of the Pope and Bishops are equal or above the words of God.....

Also I never got an answer about the Catholic church deleting the second commandment? Obviously we all know why, don't we? Because they had to cover up the obvious fact that they were breaking it..........

If building statues of dead so called saints, golden statues, alters, amulets, and all the other graven and molten idols that are in the Catholic church is not breaking the second commandment then honestly what is? I would like to see a Church that breaks that commandment more than the Catholic church.

Maybe you all should read something about the great mystery babylon. The Catholic church and its teachings and traditions tie back to a man called Nimrod who built the city of babel.....

There is a great book written about the Catholic church, it was written along time ago and it hard to get your hand on, its called.

Babylon Mystery Religion: Ancient & Modern: A critique of the Catholic Church which the author believes is symbolically described in the book of Revelation. Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth/

Here is a review of the book from here:

You stole my rightly dividing the wikipedia saying..........

I hope you know that was my attempt at a joke, I wasn't being serious, although it would help if people could read better....not referring to you, just people in general.

I am sure someone will say that it would be great if I could spell better, but when you type fast like me, your bound to make typos........

Why do people keep starting threads with my name in them? I need to be on the payroll at two plus two.......

Ahh yes, the ol 'I never got an answer when I did get an answer but didn't like it' technique. Well here's my post again for you sir.

No Catholic doctrine teaches worship of idols. Much like people who go to a picture of a loved one to help remember them, Catholics pray before statues or crucifixes to help them remember the sacrifice Jesus gave us. We don't worship the idols. Nor do we worship the person, such as Mary, the Pope, etc. We only worship God. We honor the rest.

The real problem in today's society is the worshiping of idols such as lust, money, power. Few golden calfs are worshiped in today's advanced society, but more immaterial idols are being worshiped constantly. If you want to attack the worshiping of idols, please direct your attention to more serious issues than the Catholic Church.

'oh but I saw a Catholic kneeling before a picture of Mary, he must love the picture zomg!!!'

No, that's just dumb. You know we're not worshiping the picture itself, or Mary, but God, and only God. No good Catholic will EVER say they worship anything but God, it's a lie made up by anti-Catholics who look for any thing they can say to persecute the Church.

Also, answer this - do you wear a cross or a crucifix? Do you think the millions who wear a cross worship this graven image?

Do you have pictures of your family? Do you worship these graven images?

Hey, why did the Catholic church delete commandment # 2 in their bibles?

You never answered that specific question.....

No I do not where a cross. A cross does not glorify Jesus Christ, he was ressurected, most Christians are stuck on the death and never celebrate or acknowledge the ressurection.

If they are to be wearing anything, they should be wearing something that represents the ressurection, not the death.

Did you know that a long time ago the Irish would cut off the English bowmans 2 bow fingers if they caught them? Well its true.....

Thats why the two fingers being held up in England is a slap in the face, its a put down. The Irish would hold up two fingers to make fun of the English bowmen who were missing their fingers..

In all reality what Christians are unknowingly doing is wearing the instrument that was used to kill Jesus Christ.......its so engrained in society and in the Christians mind that its a norm and thought of as the main symbolic thing to announce to others that you are a Christian.

It does not mean that they are evil, just that they should spiritually being celebrating the ressurection of Christ not just the death..........


Maybe they should wear a chain with a tomb and a rock moved away from it symbolizing that Jesus Christ is no longer dead but risen from the dead......

You are still confused about your religion....did you know that people pray to saints and to Mary and to Jesus Christ in your religion......

God is who you are to pray to........

Who do you think Jesus Christ went to pray to? Himself? Or God?

Mat 26:36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.


Thats why Jesus Christ being God is such a leaky doctrine, it makes no sense and its almost comical..

Jesus Christ praying to himself is stupid and if he is God then thats exactly what you believe.........

Wow, you're ignorance of the Church is outstanding. Read the 1st commandment that Catholics teach, in the Roman Catholic Catechism:

ARTICLE 1
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.3

Hmm, we combined the 1st and the second commandments together? Yup. Did we 'delete' the second commandment? No, it's part of the first now. So your accusations are completely ignorant. A quick 20 second google search would answer this.

I know many Christians have a problem praying to the Saints, and to Mary, and to Jesus Christ.... wait, what? You have a problem with praying to Jesus?

Jesus is God. One of Three persons, in one divine nature. The Son prays to the Father when he is on Earth. It's a mystery we'll fully understand in heaven, but it's not all that difficult to understand.

One way I heard to understand the trinity is this; God is Love. But Love can't exist on it's own - otherwise God would have noone to Love but Himself, and that isn't Love. So God is the Father and the Son - and their Love is so real that it is another entity, Love itself, the Holy Spirit, eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.

Essentially, the human family - husband, wife, and child, is the image of the most Holy Trinity. The Husband and the wife love each other so much it becomes real, a child. It's amazing how it fits together.

Well, I have seen many documents where the 2 commandment is left out.....

Heres a guy who talks a little about it.....

Nice try............God loves you man, you just need to read the bible and quit believing all the crap you have been taught by traditions.....

Eventually if you have a heart to know the truth then God will open your eyes, I have no beef with you, just the doctrines that are plainly against Gods word......

Bless........

Just for Catholics

Mods this is my last post in this thread.....................I am not into bashing people, only the doctrines that are not in line with the word of God..........

.

No people aren't stuck on the cross because they are stuck on death.

Christ says "Pick up your cross and come follow me."

The cross has always been symbolic of motivation. Anybody could follow Christ if it was easy. Its another thing to pick up a cross and follow him.

Pletho do you ever consider you may be too certain about your understanding of the word?

Unity of the faith is a Christian goal. You do realize that being too doctrinaire was Christ's complaint about the Pharisees don't you?

Don't you think everyone in the world is subject to evil influences both inside and outside of themselves including yourself?

You condemn the Catholics for idol worship but you don't go to a church to fellowship. How can you judge them for misapplying the bible when you make exceptions for yourself?

Here, read this.

Pick up your cross has nothing to do with wearing a cross, its a figure of speech meaning pick up your burdens.....

No I am not too certain of what I know, when you know the truth you cant double clutch what Gods word says and means.

No that was not Christs complaint, they were mixing in commandments and traditions of men, what I am talking about is God words.

No where in the bible are you required to go to a building called a church to worship God............the body of Christ as a whole is the church and you are to fellowhip with likeminded believers, which I do, in a home fellowhip setting...thats the way it was always originally done...........

OOPS I forgot, this is my last post, I had to answer Spleandor.....

I bet you didn't read bsheck's link at all. It explains thoroughly what me and others only touched, but eh, being stuck in unhistorical and illogical ways is fine for some people.

Also you never answered me about the Church putting together the Bible, a VERY IMPORTANT understanding to have if you want to truly grasp Scripture. Also, nowhere in scripture does it say 'all you need is found within these pages... the Church isn't what you think it is, or tell others that it is. It's really a loving place full of sinners, and those that follow the teachings are growing closer to God.

"Few Americans hate the Catholic Church,. but millions hate what they think is the Catholic Church". --Bishop Fulton Sheen

This is a problem youll find with a few well known theist posters on this board. I won't name any names, but you'll figure out in time. Basically they flat out refuse to expose their minds to anything that may go against their preconceived notions of "reality". Some even go as far as refusing to read a link because its posted by an "atheist" ... but I guess in Pletho's mind, Catholics are probably worse than atheists.

I am not against catholic people, I am against the catholic doctrines that are not in line with the rightly divided word of God.....

How can you trust someone like the Catholic church that deletes the second commandment?

Also this site is obvioulsy biased, just as the Catholic doctrines are......

Its very obvious that they do not consider all thier idols to be idols, nor do they consider them praying to their idols to be considered wrong.....

But its pretty simple and plain in the bible that they are wrong, thats the problem I have had in my discussions with most Catholics, they get all emotional and claim the traditions of the Church that have been around foolin people and themselves for such a long time cant be wrong because soo many people believe them.

Just because all the Catholics believe the tradtions of the church and the Catholic doctrine does not mean its right.....

Gods word is the ONLY standard for truth.

Traditions of religious men, Popes, Bishops, a denomination, ect...do not even come close to the authority of Gods word......

Traditions are not Gods word......they do not hold power of any kind nor authority..........read the bible for Gods sake, read what Jesus Christ said about this, if you keep posting mens words I am going to barrage you with so much of Gods word that you will look like a liar and have to be dishonest to deny it........

This has been answered so many times it's unfathomable how you can't see we didn't delete it, we merged it into the first one and split the 10th one for reasons shown in the article. And this isn't even dogma, it's just a Church teaching that you don't have to believe to be Catholic (but it's not important anyway...)

It's obvious to everyone else, religious and non-religious, that Catholics did not delete the second commandment. You're failure to see this shows that you are not a reasonable person.

You must of missed it.

Yeah... I wasn't raised religious, so I read as many opinions as I possibly could after high school and after 2-3 years of this I decided to join RCIA and become Catholic.

I was pretty anti-Catholic though, my piano teacher for half a year was a very mean nun and my mom taught piano at the music conservatory too and she hated the nuns because she felt they were money-hungry.

It took a long time to work my way out of my biases against Catholicism that the world and media has and that bad Catholics give, and find the truth of what they teach. I remember going to Mass and hating that I couldn't receive the Eucharist like I could in a few random protestant churches I attended earlier, I felt like the Catholics were SO wrong, God called all to His table, but now I know that I was the one so wrong and God does call all to his table but they must prepare themselves first (as Paul writes).They were doing it out of love, to prevent me from profaning God.

Anyway.... yeah. Work your way out of biases toward things, try to judge them first on the truths they teach and not the members of the religion... although you can judge a religion by it's fruits, it's often hard to tell which people are actually following the religion or just saying "I'm a Muslim! or I'm a Catholic!" and not even knowing what they believe, or deciding it based on moral relativity, on the convenience for them in their life and how good it feels instead of moral truths. Millions are being led astray by those like Nanci Pelosi or Joe Biden, Catholics for 'choice' instead of life, what an oxymoron.