Theists talk all the time about this issue. This OP won't be that long but cliff notes at the bottom.

Last night on the radio some old guy was going on about some model of the human foot he was looking at. He thought to himself how he can't imagine how anyone couldn't see that something so complex could come about from anything/anyone other than God. (in his case, the Christian God)

I would argue how the complexity of our world actually seems more likely to be a result of something other than God because of his supposed power.

God could have just made us with nothing in our bodies at all. The food we eat and the liquids we drink could just magically evaporate from within our bodies. We'd never have to take a dump or pee.
Better yet, he could make it so we don't even need to ever eat! That way no children of God will ever starve.

Why do we need a heart, lungs, kidneys, etc, etc? Having all these components just makes it more likely that we will break down and suffer. He could have made us all live for exactly 100 years, and we'd all be healthy as can be the entire time.

This has nothing to do with the need to suffer that some theists would use to counter this line of thought. We'd still be able to be cheated on, laughed at, called ugly, not get that job you wanted, on and on and on there is plenty of suffering to be had.

This applies to nature as well but for the sake of keeping it short and simple I won't go into that because it's fairly obvious what I'd say.


Cliff Notes: I'd be more likely to think a God of some type created us if we weren't so complex.

If we didn't poop or pee, how would we celebrate the existence of the flying spaghetti monster by eating delicious spaghetti and feel it slowly rumble through our organs?

I find eating, pooping and peeing to be enjoyable.

FWIW - Also possible: God exists, but designed/used/allowed the process of evolution to take place.

But yes, I agree this argument goes quite the distance against young-Earth creationists. When asked about why the Universe looks so old (evidenced by such things as ancient light coming in from stars tons of light years away, among many many other things) there's not really a satisfactory answer. In short, God is trying to pull a fast one.

A more likely explanation is that the universe looks old because it is, and things look evolved because they are. Some people will look to God as the reason "why," others may look elsewhere, or say there's no reason at all.

TBH, if a persons faith was so weak that they say, "But the Bible doesn't specifically say the universe is billions of years old..." and then they lose faith in God because the universe is that old.... well, it seems they likely missed the point of the Bible in the first place.

Sometimes it is enjoyable, yes.

Other times I'm driving down the road pissed off that I have to stop off somewhere to eat to not feel hungry.

I often find myself wishing there was some pill I could just take once a day that would make me not hungry so I didn't have to take the time to either cook food or go get it.

Same with taking a dump or peeing. Yeah it feels good to relieve yourself after holding your pee for a period of time. But I also wake up in the morning to stumble into the bathroom to pee only to dive back into bed to fall back asleep.
Other time I wake up every thirty minutes or so because I have to pee, but not wanting to get up because I'm tired.
I've thought of how nice it would be if I had some long tube next to my bed I could just grab real quick to relieve myself without getting up.

I can understand frequent trips to the bathroom being annoying, but come on- eating can't really fail to satisfy you can it?

I can understand frequent trips to the bathroom being annoying, but come on- eating can't really fail to satisfy you can it? I'm usually pretty eager to be hungry again.

No reason to make this stuff up lol.

I view eating as a hassle much of the time. I can respect how others enjoy the process, no doubt and I do sometimes as well. This really has nothing to do with my OP, but I was just sharing my thoughts on how I find it annoying to have to fuel my body.

So does this mean you are more likely to think a God of some type created the first single celled organism than having that single celled organism appear due to the presence of some sort of random process?

No.

Evolution is not random. Read anything by Dawkins. While the mutations that end up being selected for are random, natural selection is the very opposite of a random process.

Semantics, IMO. Some people may define random as:

1) if something is random, it means it is not guided by an intelligent force
2) if something is not random, it means the outcome is predictable (i.e., you would be able to quantify what the next steps in evolution are with certainty)

Now, obviously people are going to disagree with that definition, likely with valid reasons or caveats. But ultimately, most arguments I've seen happen over whether evolution is random or not stem from the fact that the people in the argument mean different things when they say "random."

another thing to consider, things like this (and the beauty of nature, etc) in no way give credence to the Christian God, any more than they do to Allah, or any God ever fathomed by human beings for that matter. A buddhist can make these observations as well as anyone can. yet, for believers, this is somehow proof of their specific views.

the truth is observations like this do nothing more than give one the possibilities of a deistic point of view.

Butcho22, I think about this same thing all the time. My reasoning might not be satisfactory to you but I'll tell you why I believe it is this way.

In this three dimensional world we live in, everything has an answer. Nothing exists that doesn't have an explanation and the same goes for the human body. Our organs are the "reason" that we live and therefore cannot exist without them. The heart pumps the blood throughout the entire body which in turn allows the organs to function as needed.

In a sense, our bodies are the way they are for the reasons we know already, if that makes sense. We know the muscles move as a result of the nerves in the brain that send a message..etc, etc. We know that we pee because our bladder fills up from liquids..etc, etc. If we were hollow inside then that wouldn't make sense, and therefore wouldn't fit into this world.

God made our bodies the way He did because that's what it took for them to function in this world. Everything has an answer and our bodies are no exception. All of what are bodies are capable of has to be supported by some reasoning, and the organs that are inside of us are what give the answers to why we function the way we do.

Planes need engines in order to fly. The refrigerator needs a motor in order to run. The computer needs a circuit.. All of these devices can be explained because of their internal components. Same as the human body.

Randomness is one of those things that are well-defined, so if they're using those definitions then they're just wrong. Well, or they're using very casual definitions of the term purely in order to connote what helps their position.

your entire post hinges on this statement. and theres no good reason to believe it.

Then don't believe it.

Thanks for your thoughts, but you're really just saying what I'm saying, except you're saying it makes more sense for a God to have created us this way, where I see it the opposite.

God could have made our bodies anyway he wanted and that's what it would have took for us to function in this world.

Do you agree with that statement?

Yes I agree with your statement that God could have made our bodies any way He wanted.

But in this situation I'm looking at what we have to work with. And what we know for sure is why our bodies work the way they do. And being one of those bodies myself, I am willing to accept what mine is.

I understand the logic of creating a body that doesn't experience headaches, sickness, pain, or any other negative feeling we experience but I don't think God doesn't exist because we're not like that. As far as this goes, I have to look at the whole picture and I think our body fits perfectly in the world that we know.

And FWIW, God may have created our bodies with the perfection you seem to expect He would have. But then in order for you to realize that your body was fit to perfection you'd have to be able to realize what perfection was not, and for that accomplishment you can thank Adam and Eve. Remember that if God is real, then so is the story of the Garden of Eden.

i actually believe that if there is a "god" (to be specific, the "entity" that started the chain of events that perpetuated carbon-based life), it was probably bound by the laws of the universe just as we are. this idea has some pretty interesting implications. i find it pretty unlikely that something would create the universe just to facilitate life on earth.

when i think about the complexity of the human body and life itself, i see a level of creation that goes beyond anything life (humanity) itself has ever created... a physically manifested, self-sufficient, self-perpetuating creation that, if it serves a purpose at all, serves a purpose that it will likely never understand.

the funny thing is, the only difference between the things that humanity creates and "god's creation" is the self-sufficient, self-perpetuating part.

there's a good chance god and God would disagree with you on this one.

I look at the human body and think it reflects the lack of an intelligent designer. Yea, it's incredibly complex, but it's also poorly designed. Why do men have nipples? Why do we only get one set of adult teeth? I understand the need for DNA to mutate, but why do birth defects need to be result? Why are our eyes so vulnerable to injury?

Ever had your blood sugar checked?

We actually know this is false in the case of vestigial organs such as the appendix. The one and only thing that your appendix can do for you is to become infected and possibly kill you unless you have it removed. Having an appendix has absolutely no positive impact on your health, and people who have had it removed have good health with no impairment to their digestive systems. If the appendix was inserted into humans by design, then it was, without a doubt, a very big mistake.

There is no intelligent reason for humans to have been designed in such a way, indicating that either we were not designed, or that the designer was in fact unintelligent. However, this all makes perfect sense and is elegantly explained by evolution, since vestigial organs such as the appendix may have simply lost their original function, yet remained intact, as new species evolved. Remarkably, we can even see how these organs retain their function in other species that are related to the species in which the vestigial organ still exists.

I drink a lot of coffee and water...often times I can't help myself and I keep drinking fluids until right before I go to sleep.

When I do decide to not drink for ~1.5 hours leading up to sleeping I usually go once before bed and then don't wake up at all feeling like I have to go.

But I do appreciate the concern/advice/suggestion.

The first thing I thought of when I read the cliff notes was how whenever I'm in an art museum and I see a work of art that is just something like a single dot on an otherwise blank canvas, I think to myself. "Wow, a 6 year old could have done that!(lolz)" Then, I look at another art work that is very complex and obviously required quite a bit of skill to create, and I think, "That must have been a very talented artist."

IMO, both artists are creative and talented, they've just chosen to express themselves in different ways. If God created us, then for us to understand why he chose to do it the way he did would be just as big a mystery to us as why those artists chose to express themselves the way that they did. (assuming in this example that those two artists left no evidence behind to indicate who they were or what their motivations were other than the product of their labors)