I believe that he is talking about a passage in revelation. I will have to look it up, but if I remember correctly it only speaks to the book of revelations.

But that is not the point. As we are not talking about taking away or adding anything. I meant exactly what I wrote in the OP, but that does not mean that if you take some of the example figuratively that you are changing anything.

But once again, that does not mean that as imperfect beings we will not / or cannot distort the truth.

I dont think the human view of a God is going to grasp the scope of its being..

Bible scholars, who go through it dozens or even a hundred times, have drastically differing ideas about it. Based on what you're saying, we would expect that the longer people study the Bible, the more their viewpoints converge. But it's the opposite; the longer people study the Bible, the more divergent their viewpoints become.

But you have no justification for that. For one thing, many people don't like their original conclusion and study the Bible very deeply as a result. For another thing, many of the interpretations of those who question and revise their beliefs constantly, and spend their lives studying the Bible, are almost diametrically opposed to your own interpretation.

Of course, all of this is exactly what we expect for a simple ancient text that is now hard to understand. None of it is what we expect for a divine word.

Simple things? Like whether or not God created evil? Or whether homosexuality is wrong? Or whether or not slavery and/or womens' rights were condoned by God? Or whether or not evolution actually occurred...or whether or not it should be taught in schools? Or where our morals come from and whether or not they are absolute?

If by "simple things" you meant "big complex things" then we probably just misinterpreted or mistranslated your post. Or maybe it was just figurative.

Right, exactly. Your little test passed my little test - the "does it make sense" test.

The Bible doesn't.

Great, show me a consensus somewhere and you will have something to back up what you're saying.

And we can't let that happen...EVER. So we have to defend it at all costs. (something generally overlooked by theists)

If we're imperfect, then you're also imperfect. As an imperfect being, how can you be sure that the Bible is true? It's like you're saying that everything we think and do is potentially flawed (and I strongly agree here) EXCEPT for assessment of the Bible's validity (and I strongly disagree here)!

No cake and eat it stuff plz.

The whole bible isnt all complex. I wont say the bible has all the answers but it has many answers for us to live by including scientific and general knowledge (or wise sayings). There is that old elment of free will. The eating of the apple gives an idea of how man grew/gained knowledge. There began our epic downfall. The source of the emminent evil I think wasnt from God but my opinion ..

Bible was written by man whom is imperfect also it was translated many times over fyi.

That truth is up to each individual. No one can force you to feel a certain way about something. I feel faith is a spirtual thing that individuals experience maybe in time. Whether or not the things written were valid for me is irrelevant because the message is the same. It would be tough for someone whose prayers were unanswered to have such faith but still we can experience it from others. Man is the ultimate evil imo. We are all capable of horror if we got the chance.

care to share some of the scientific knowledge imparted by the bible? perhaps you can start a thread on it...

??? It is not clear by reading the Bible what is literal, what is metaphorical... or even how to interpret it.

You would think God could figure out how to write a clear message that all could agree on, no?

To blame it on individual is a copout. Either we should all be able to read the Bible and agree on what it says or not. I've read enough over the years to understand that there is no agreement on scholars pretty much ever on what the Bible means or how it is to be interpreted.

If you're arguing that it is clear, you may be alone.

I believe there was a thread already ...

hmm, link?

unless it was that link to some article with 100 scientific things from the bible that just about every poster (theists included) laughed at because they were all so ******ed...if its that one i don't need the link...

Read the writings of the early Christians, pre-nicea era.

literally?

Could you please link to me saying that I guarantee that I am 100% correct?

It's pretty clear most of the time, imo

I find that people who analyze the bible such as scholars get a different view from pastors because maybe they're looking for different things. People who study on their own will get different answers as well. If you dont think translations are not important then youve probably not taken a foreign language.

Like the commandments those the bible says were direct from God they are very clear. But things like visions etc those arent going to be exact... Also the bible wasnt written by just one individual...

Take a look at my point again. It's not whether you feel you're 100% at all.

The point is that you're setting up a framework that suggests human logic is flawed and unreliable...but the opposite side of your mouth is somehow claiming that our assessment of the Bible's validity is more reliable than our other logic. That doesn't make any sense.

If you mean like praying to fly hmmm I dont think so but we have things like planes, oh and people have invented some cool things with wings that you can use to help glide.

But, Yes I do mean literal (not that God will speak to me or things like that, more like direct in which I think gives a literal helping hand type thing).

thirddan they were laughable to some people but its there written and recorded giving some facts.

im off for now..

I never said that human logic is flawed and unreliable. I said that humans are flawed.

As stated before, I believe that if you looked at almost every deviation of doctrine and it's history you find a man made motivation behind it that is not rested on honest misinterpretation.

Or that logic was not used at all, but that it was a knee jerk reaction.

So humans are flawed but our logic isn't? I'm not following.

The key part of your answer is "imo".... because there are literally millions of people who, with all of their heart, believe it is clear and it says something different then you think it does.

And just curious... did you see the part in the Noah thread I pointed out for you. (regarding food and water requirements?)

I have seen Biblical Scholars (on TLC or Discovery documentaries... always get them mixed up) say with complete conviction that Noah's Ark is a metaphor. Is that clear to you?

And we're not talking about interpretation here. We're discussing the actual validity of the Bible.

The usual argument is not that there is one way to interpret the bible, the usual argument is that if you know that way A is wrong then presumably you know the correct way B or method X for arriving at correct answers.

Which begs a few questions.