I grew up in a Christian family, and at some point I learned that suicide is forbidden. I was taught that anyone who commits suicide goes to hell. This closes a pretty big loophole in Christianity, because otherwise it would seem that the "optimal strategy" is to kill yourself as soon as you've done whatever is required to secure your salvation. So once you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, and you know all your sins are forgiven, the safest play would be to hang yourself before you have a chance to screw things up later. I mean isn't heaven the ultimate goal? Why waste any more time on earth than you have to?

But most Christians seem to think that committing suicide would prevent them from going to heaven. This belief is so widespread that I just assumed it must be mentioned somewhere in the Bible. But I can't find it. The Skeptic's Annotated Bible was no help. And here's another link. The only possible prohibition of suicide that I can see here, is if you interpret "Thou shalt not kill" as implying a prohibition against killing yourself - but then why wouldn't the Bible condemn suicide more directly?

I think your right, the bible doesn't condemn it, it just falls under the thou shall not kill commandment.

I found this site where some guy quotes some additional passages and then tells you how to interperet them appropriately. None of the passages he lists directly condemns suicide.

My understanding is that it comes down through the Catholic church (and you're right about it being a fifth commandment thing):

Catholic encyclopedia

Catholic catechism

However, the notion that people who commit suicide go to hell seems to be contradicted by the catechism:

There is no place that I've ever seen or heard this idea of going to hell because of suicide presented in a believable way in the protestant church. It falls in the same category as the sinfulness of drinking and dancing. Somewhere, the idea seeped in culturally, and it stuck for entirely non-biblical reasons.

By the way, the skeptic's annotated Bible is probably not the right place to go for useful theology. It's where you go when you already disagree with the Bible and are trying to build up a collection of Bible passages that you think are weird. (But I think you probably knew that.)

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This is a demonstration of a selfish Christian theology. In the words of Rick Warren, "It's not about you." The "ultimate goal" is not to get yourself into heaven, but to participate in the redemptive work of Christ. Paul addresses this issue:

Incidentally, some people take this to be Paul contemplating suicide (because they suck at theology). In the context of the passage, he's writing from prison and is unsure of his fate under the hands of the Roman system of justice.

Although not specifically mentioned, I think it is a circular thing. Killing a human is a sin, you must repent of your sins to be forgiven, and if you are dead (by killing yourself), you can't repent of that final sin (and I don't think you can take a bunch of pills and then ask for forgiveness "in advance" of the actual death).

Great question, Steve. This issue is very close to my heart as I am an evangelical Christian and my brother took his life seven years ago.

My brother was bipolar. About 50% of people who suffer from bipolar disorder attempt suicide and about 15% are eventually successful. We read my brother's journal after his death and it was a scary descent into madness.

Most people who take their own life are mentally ill in some way. (Which is why statements like "He had everything to live for" is folly when applied to suicide. Rational analysis can never square with an inherently irrational act.)

Just as someone who is truly mentally insane can be found not guilty of murder, the Bible does not hold someone who is mentally incompetent responsible for not following "Thou shalt not murder" with regards to suicide.

What if you pay someone else to kill you, or something more along those lines? Maybe you agree to write someone into your will if they kill you, or let them **** your wife after you die -- it doesn't have to be direct money.

Or what if you are in a position of power, and one of your subjects becomes angry with you and kills you? Didn't you then, in some way, push them to kill you, and could that not be considered an elaborate form of suicide? I mean, people in positions of political power HAVE to be aware that they are opening themselves up to the possibility of being assassinated. How is that not, to at least a degree, suicidal?

Or what if someone merely takes a job where there is a higher chance of occupational death, like mining or fishing or truck driving?

Just wondering where the line is here.

This still leaves room for killing everyone else, some of them even before they are born! And asking god / Jesus to forgive you, being born again, accepting him into your heart, yada yada yada. Bingo, heaven.

Obviously this (and suicide, as well) was not the intended goal of the bible, even though one could possibly argue that it is a way to game the system. But that is one of the problems with declaring that rules must be followed arbitrarily, rather than for the reason that we think they work best because of a, b, and c.

Reminds me of a comic... let me see if I can find it... Well, I can't find it, but somewhere in the Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal web site is a comic in which Moses is holding a stone tablet and asking god, "Can't we have some specific rules?" And god irritatedly says "oh alright" (I'm paraphrasing this stuff), and then you see what is written on the face of the original tablet, "Don't be a dick."

Edit: found it - http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php...&id=1590#comic

Does the bible say this?

It is interesting because I think the idea mentally incompetent has changed a lot over the years.

I'm thinking specifically of anyone who is ******ed, or in some cases just deaf, or severely deformed, being locked away in asylums or in basements and never educated or properly cared for. That's what she said! Just kidding.