God someone pays attention and tries to get answers for real.
Hey mighty stop. The answer is...

Yeah though I'd say extra marital rather than pre I think but the point remains.

If we were somehow able to prove that Jesus was the product of Mary and God and thus born without his "parents" being married then whether or not we assign the label bastard is one of the least interesting consequences.

That's not what I believe however

BrokenATM you probably want to learn where the line is. If you want to cause offence you need to be less ridiculous as rather than being offensive you're just being daft.

OP, I think the answer is the one you already have and don't like. The Bible also says not to murder, but God killed all kinds of people and it's OK because it's God who did it. You want the hypocrisy to get more attention, but it's built into the Bible, almost as a foundation, and believers are so used to it, it won't faze them. The rules of the Bible are meant for humans, not God himself. He is above any law. So any arguments in this vain wil simply fall on deaf ears.

Being offensive is not just a matter of whether you intended to offend someone, or whether you personally find something offensive. It is very possible to offend someone without intending to do so, or without personally finding what you said offensive. Of course, we don't delete something just because it is offensive, so that isn't really the issue. However, you should not fool yourself into thinking that you are not being offensive or provocatory just because you don't think something is offensive.

while that's undoubtedly correct it seems to me like someone wants to be.

Hmm I think u are butthurt to be honest. I wasn't insulting anyone...
I asked my question again and you failed to answer. God works in mysterious ways but it is magic? I'm all done u don't have answers.
Next!

You are right I guess. Well I tried to have a conversation and learn what I missed but its obvious I just know how to read and the words contradict themselves.
Ok good game guys.

Was that towards me? Cuz I'm not trying to be offensive. But if I was I'm ok with constructive criticism as original knows. So I'm hoping that was not directed at me since deeds finds the truth offensive. You can be direct

Great points here Orp. This is so true even outside this thread or 2p2. This should be like a sticky or something

its the kind of thing that helps ones marriage...

wp!

THAT... is pretty obvious.

This comes across as you not having considered offence and the giving of it in that light before. Something to remember then the next time a Christian talks about faith & morality. They may imagine the two go hand in hand, or even that faith is required for morality, which is an idea that as someone who considers themselves a moral person but who has no faith, I find highly offensive.

As for the idea that Christians would find offensive the idea that Jesus was a bastard, I think it more a reflection of their own negative associations with the word than any meaningful impact that his being a bastard would actually have. It does make me wonder though how anyone can believe that Jesus was the son of Deity and a human woman and yet not believe in the story of Adam and Eve and that all living humans descended from them. Really, how is one more or less believable than the other?

I'd say that the story of Adam and Eve is significantly less believable to me than the story of the virgin birth. Partly because we have tons of evidence that refutes Adam and Eve and I'm not sure we have the same evidence to refute the virgin birth.

Nor are the implications as great, for us all to be descended from a single couple made from earth and then Adam's rib has far greater consequences than Mary becoming pregnant due to a visitation from the holy spirit.

I don't believe either fwiw but I think the consequences of Adam and Eve being true being far greater than the virgin birth of Jesus.

I don't know anyone taking offence at BrokenATM calling Jesus a bastard only pointing out that it's a bit daft.

Hey OP, you should watch "The Passion of The Christ" to learn more about your question

It would be more interesting to ask Mel "I'm an anti-semitic abusive a-hole" Gibson what he thinks maybe? My money is on him answering 'Me'.

I was just complimenting Orp on the points he was making. I feel like your attacking me here. Not sure what to reply. Is there something specific I should respond to?

I am not offended if people think Jesus was a bastard. I think it is a bit crass way of communicating but it is one way of interpreting history.

If you don't think the Bible is believable you can discard it as false.

Also faith and morality are complex. I don't really want to jump to any conclusions here on how they relate or don't relate.

Ok bro. I'm confused with ur stance.
Don't know if serious... I loved that movie btw. Gore, drama, comedy good times.

Ummmm. How are you defining bastard ?
What Old Testament/Jewish laws are you going by ?

In common usage a bastard is someone born out of wedlock. If my memory is correct Mary and Joseph were married when Jesus was born.

Mary could have been stoned for adultery but Joseph refused to accuse her and was going to divorce her 'quietly'.

You don't seem to understand your own premise.

Any child conceived form adultery would of be considered a bastard. Now if its God and no sex i dont think you could call it adultery or Jesus a bastard. But yeah it wouldn't matter if Mary and Joseph were married if Joseph wasn't the father. If it was a child conceived out of wedlock (but not God doing the impregnating) then...

I'm going by the laws in the bible.
So if Jesus wasn't a bastard that's ok for me. But then his mother wants a virgin LOL. So she was just some lady who was married and not a virgin then.
This is all.
His mother is not a virgin and he was fathered by a different father than the real husband.
Then we can say: Jesus was a bastard and his mother wasn't a virgin and this is a fact! Unless GOD used invitro instead of penetration she was also abused by god.
Or she enjoyed it making her a whore too?
It's just bad all around.
Which other possibles did I miss?

Exactly.

You're missing the possibility that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Don't take that as an insult because neither do I.

It seems that bastard in Jewish law has a different meaning than in common English usage. If you do a quick google you'll see.

So to answer your question you'll first have to define what bastard means in the context of Jesus' society.

I have a feeling you won't. Which is a shame because it is an interesting question.

You have some really unpleasant views about women.