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Religion and logic Religion and logic

06-20-2017 , 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by d2_e4
Who said you can't? I think my admitting it means you can, no?
No. That's not how reality works.

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I really don't understand how the interaction in religious communities works.
At a certain level, it's just like every single other social group or social organization.

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I mean, what goes on there? Do you guys talk about god or something? Is it just a big communal get-together?
Wow... you really are just that ignorant.

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What do you personally say if you meet a creationist?
It depends on the context, but I'm not at all afraid to disagree with them.
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06-20-2017 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
"I just support this and believe in it - I'm not responsible for what everyone else who supports the same thing does!"

Please.... I have admitted a lot of where I have been lacking in the points I have been making, but intellectual honesty starts at home, bro.
Yes it does. But if you actually think I have influence over the millions of other Christians that don't know who I am, then you're far worse off in the brain than I had initially thought.
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06-20-2017 , 07:35 PM
Wow man, that's some enlightening answers right there. Do you coach religion, bro?
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06-20-2017 , 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by d2_e4
Do you coach religion, bro?
What does that even mean?
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06-20-2017 , 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
Yes it does. But if you actually think I have influence over the millions of other Christians that don't know who I am, then you're far worse off in the brain than I had initially thought.
No, I don't think you do, personally. You seem to be missing the point on purpose, because I know that you are certainly not this obtuse.

The point is that one smart or charismatic person supporting a certain cause is worth a 100 or 1000 (respectively) or more ******s, because the ******s will follow, as is their wont.

Don't flatter yourself by the way, I am not suggesting you are charismatic. But you are smart, so you should know better.
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06-20-2017 , 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
No, I don't think you do, personally. You seem to be missing the point on purpose, because I know that you are certainly not this obtuse.

The point is that one smart or charismatic person supporting a certain cause is worth a 100 or 1000 (respectively) or more ******s, because the ******s will follow, as is their wont.

Don't flatter yourself by the way, I am not suggesting you are charismatic. But you are smart, so you should know better.
Ummmmm... I feel sorry for your brain. It's drastically underutilized and wasting away in your skull.

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06-20-2017 , 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
What does that even mean?
I know that there are not too many right-wing or religious comics out there ("Photons have mass? I didn't even know they were catholic!"), so you may not be intimately acquainted with the concept, but it was actually humour.
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06-20-2017 , 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
Ummmmm... I feel sorry for your brain. It's drastically underutilized and wasting away in your skull.

You might not be able to cure stupid, but you can certainly prevent it.

You know - the point I was making about education?
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06-20-2017 , 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
You might not be able to cure stupid, but you can certainly prevent it.

You know - the point I was making about education?
I have no idea what you're talking about. In your latest flurry of posts, I don't see anything pertaining to education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Who said you can't? I think my admitting it means you can, no?

I really don't understand how the interaction in religious communities works. I mean, what goes on there? Do you guys talk about god or something? Is it just a big communal get-together? What do you personally say if you meet a creationist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
"I just support this and believe in it - I'm not responsible for what everyone else who supports the same thing does!"

Please.... I have admitted a lot of where I have been lacking in the points I have been making, but intellectual honesty starts at home, bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Wow man, that's some enlightening answers right there. Do you coach religion, bro?
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
No, I don't think you do, personally. You seem to be missing the point on purpose, because I know that you are certainly not this obtuse.

The point is that one smart or charismatic person supporting a certain cause is worth a 100 or 1000 (respectively) or more ******s, because the ******s will follow, as is their wont.

Don't flatter yourself by the way, I am not suggesting you are charismatic. But you are smart, so you should know better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I know that there are not too many right-wing or religious comics out there ("Photons have mass? I didn't even know they were catholic!"), so you may not be intimately acquainted with the concept, but it was actually humour.
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06-20-2017 , 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by d2_e4
And yeah, I know. You're going to say, with righteous indignation "How can you compare these ******s to us enlightened evangelicals?". Here's how, Aaron - when you teach kids to believe in bull**** from a young age, and not question it, you stifle any hope of critical thinking in the future generation. They'll believe anything St. Limbaugh tells them on the airwaves, whether it's about god, chocolate milk, Obama's birth certificate, pizza parlor child slave rings, etc. etc.

Religion is a cancer on humanity. You might think it's a harmless bit of fun and everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but it really isn't. It's a way to indoctrinate people, from a very young age, not to apply critical thinking to anything they may be faced with in future, because faith and dogma needs to prevail.

You might say that I am not very good at applying critical thinking, and a lot of my arguments have been found wanting - and you'd be right. However, at least I try. Be honest Aaron, how many of your evangelical brethren even attempt to see the world in a way that differs from the dogma with which they (and you) have been indoctrinated?
The post that bumped the thread, less than 24hrs ago.
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06-20-2017 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
The post that bumped the thread, less than 24hrs ago.
You mean the rant that makes no sense? Okay.

Maybe education starts with you learning about the thing you're criticizing.
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06-20-2017 , 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
You mean the rant that makes no sense? Okay.

Maybe education starts with you learning about the thing you're criticizing.
When I imagine in my mind what you might look and sound like, I can't get get away from "Jeff Sessions' testimony to congress".

Last edited by d2_e4; 06-20-2017 at 08:15 PM. Reason: I think I characterised it to a friend as a "sniveling rat"
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06-20-2017 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
When I imagine in my mind what you might look and sound like, I can't get get away from "Jeff Sessions' testifying before congress".
You're free to imagine the world however you choose. But if you want to make a difference somewhere, it starts with you being less ignorant, not with me doing whatever it is you imagine I should be doing. Blind rants and rambles that conflate all sorts of things that aren't connected do you absolutely no good.

Sorry, but maybe you should quit the internet for a while and get some real life experiences before posting again. If you are as stupid as what comes through the screen when you type, there are more important things that you need to be doing for yourself instead of "venting" on the internet.
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06-20-2017 , 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
You're free to imagine the world however you choose. But if you want to make a difference somewhere, it starts with you being less ignorant, not with me doing whatever it is you imagine I should be doing. Blind rants and rambles that conflate all sorts of things that aren't connected do you absolutely no good.

Sorry, but maybe you should quit the internet for a while and get some real life experiences before posting again. If you are as stupid as what comes through the screen when you type, there are more important things that you need to be doing for yourself instead of "venting" on the internet.
You might not be wrong, but you'd have a lot more credibility if you admitted to being mistaken once in a while: I said that I had said something in a post, you couldn't find the post, I pointed it out, so instead of admitting that you were wrong, you doubled down and attacked the post where I pointed it out, and the original one.

Whether you agree with the post or not, its existence was what was in question - for someone who preaches intellectual honesty, you sure practice precious little of it.

Last edited by d2_e4; 06-20-2017 at 08:40 PM.
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06-20-2017 , 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
You might not be wrong, but you'd have a lot more credibility if you admitted to being mistaken once in a while: I said that I said something in a post, you couldn't find the post, I pointed it out, so instead of admitting that you were wrong, you doubled down and attacked that post and the original one.

Whether you agree with the post or not, its existence was what was in question - for someone who preaches intellectual honesty, you sure practice precious little of it.
I still don't see anything specific to me having influence with education in there. It's really just a nonsense rant based primarily on a complete void of knowledge about the thing you're criticizing.

Throughout this entire thread, you've proven one thing very clearly: You have no idea what you're talking about. You keep coming back to nonsensical rambles that have very little resemblance to reality. You have obvious tendencies towards promoting false statements. You aren't even consistent with yourself.

And you choose consistently to hold to your infantile understanding instead of growing and developing intellectually. Your insistence on ignorance is something that I can't help you with. In fact...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
The mechanism through which you believe what you do about religious people is not that different from the mechanism that religious people use themselves.
It's as hard for "those people" to get out of the intellectual rut they're in as it is for you to get out of the one you're in. Rather than feeling superior, you ought to feel empathy for the state they're in. It's exactly the same thing as you've been doing the entire thread. It's not any easier for them to "get out" as it is for you to do it. Maybe you should spend as much time developing yourself as you wish they would spend on themselves.
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06-20-2017 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
I still don't see anything specific to me having influence with education in there. It's really just a nonsense rant based primarily on a complete void of knowledge about the thing you're criticizing.

Throughout this entire thread, you've proven one thing very clearly: You have no idea what you're talking about. You keep coming back to nonsensical rambles that have very little resemblance to reality. You have obvious tendencies towards promoting false statements. You aren't even consistent with yourself.

And you choose consistently to hold to your infantile understanding instead of growing and developing intellectually. Your insistence on ignorance is something that I can't help you with. In fact...



It's as hard for "those people" to get out of the intellectual rut they're in as it is for you to get out of the one you're in. Rather than feeling superior, you ought to feel empathy for the state they're in. It's exactly the same thing as you've been doing the entire thread. It's not any easier for them to "get out" as it is for you to do it. Maybe you should spend as much time developing yourself as you wish they would spend on themselves.
You're doubling down on 20 here, bro.

You quoted a bunch of posts claiming that I didn't say what I claimed to have said. You missed the one where I said what I claimed to have said. QED (I am sure you are familiar with what that means).
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06-20-2017 , 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
You're doubling down on 20 here, bro.

You quoted a bunch of posts claiming that I didn't say what I claimed to have said. You missed the one where I said what I claimed to have said. QED (I am sure you are familiar with what that means).
*Shrug*

I'll admit that I didn't include the ramble in the list of posts when clicking that multi-quite button. But I still don't see anything useful about education in there that I should somehow have some sort of massive influence over.

I mean, sure... Hang your hat on my misclicking adventure, I guess.
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06-20-2017 , 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
*Shrug*

I'll admit that I didn't include the ramble in the list of posts when clicking that multi-quite button. But I still don't see anything useful about education in there that I should somehow have some sort of massive influence over.

I mean, sure... Hang your hat on my misclicking adventure, I guess.
Oh, so you would have made that same point if you quoted the post in question? Come on, it's pretty sad that you stubbornly continue this pretense.

This might seem pedantic, but I actually think it goes to the heart of the matter. Neither you, nor your kind, will ever admit to being wrong about anything - that would be blasphemy, right?
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06-20-2017 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Oh, so you would have made that same point if you quoted the post in question? Come on, it's pretty sad that you stubbornly continue this pretense.

This might seem pedantic, but I actually think it goes to the heart of the matter. Neither you, nor your kind, will ever admit to being wrong about anything - that would be blasphemy, right?
LOL -- If you think that something about chocolate milk and St. Limbaugh is really something of intellectual merit to be responding to in terms of some broad influence over education that you think I have, then you're welcome to hold on to it for as long as you would like. I guess I can add "petty" to the list of things that you've shown yourself to be.

Like I said, hang your hat on my failing to click a button. Sure. That's bigly what intellectual honesty is really about. Forget the content or lack thereof. "You didn't click the button! You're a terrible person and you should be ashamed of yourself! All things religious are *YOUR* fault!"

Last edited by Aaron W.; 06-20-2017 at 09:05 PM. Reason: LOL -- Of the two of us, you've got the pretense market cornered.
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06-20-2017 , 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
LOL -- If you think that something about chocolate milk and St. Limbaugh is really something of intellectual merit to be responding to in terms of some broad influence over education that you think I have, then you're welcome to hold on to it for as long as you would like. I guess I can add "petty" to the list of things that you've shown yourself to be.

Like I said, hang your hat on my failing to click a button. Sure. That's bigly what intellectual honesty is really about. Forget the content or lack thereof. "You didn't click the button! You're a terrible person and you should be ashamed of yourself! All things religious are *YOUR* fault!"
Having a couple of drinks tonight, bro? Cheers!

Edit: No, I don't think you are going to single-handedly fix education, especially given your reading comprehension abilities.

Last edited by d2_e4; 06-20-2017 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Betsy DeVos tho - she's gonna make sure all the kids learn about Noah's Ark.
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06-21-2017 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Having a couple of drinks tonight, bro? Cheers!

Edit: No, I don't think you are going to single-handedly fix education, especially given your reading comprehension abilities.
It's amusing to me that you *still* think that your ramble has something to do with education.

Quoting it again below for posterity.

Quote:
And yeah, I know. You're going to say, with righteous indignation "How can you compare these ******s to us enlightened evangelicals?". Here's how, Aaron - when you teach kids to believe in bull**** from a young age, and not question it, you stifle any hope of critical thinking in the future generation. They'll believe anything St. Limbaugh tells them on the airwaves, whether it's about god, chocolate milk, Obama's birth certificate, pizza parlor child slave rings, etc. etc.

Religion is a cancer on humanity. You might think it's a harmless bit of fun and everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but it really isn't. It's a way to indoctrinate people, from a very young age, not to apply critical thinking to anything they may be faced with in future, because faith and dogma needs to prevail.

You might say that I am not very good at applying critical thinking, and a lot of my arguments have been found wanting - and you'd be right. However, at least I try. Be honest Aaron, how many of your evangelical brethren even attempt to see the world in a way that differs from the dogma with which they (and you) have been indoctrinated?
The guy who has trouble distinguishing between truth and fiction, who openly admits that he sucks at critical thinking, who is an outright liar at times, and who plays the unthinking in-group/out-group game to no end is trying to sell the idea that somehow religion is what keeps people from being thinking, rational people.

To quote one of his kind, "Sad!"
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06-23-2017 , 03:41 AM
This may have reached the point where you two just need a whatsapp chat...
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06-23-2017 , 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jeccross
This may have reached the point where you two just need a whatsapp chat...
Nah. Even though he's behind a wall of anonymity, I think there's value for him to make his statements semi-publicly because it has a higher chance of actually changing his internal thought processes.

Not that I think the chances are that high. The bulk of his list of "things I learned from this thread" were things that most adults could have figured out on their own by just spending a couple minutes in self-reflection.

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- Not all religious people are total mouth-breathers
- There is a lot I don't understand about religion in general
- There are degrees of atheism
- I need to be specific when discussing religion, as opposed to say, simulation theory
Only the third one is something that I think is a piece of knowledge that really does require someone on the outside to speak into to understand (that's not to say that this isn't a conclusion he couldn't have reached by doing some preliminary background reading or something like that). But the others are things that people are usually able figure out on their own.

I mean, this is at least a start, and I don't want to take that away from him. But he's got a LONG way to go. And even that progress would probably have been impossible without having to face up to himself in a semi-public manner. Quoting him back at himself has proven itself to be the most effective tool so far in forcing some type of reflective attitude, but he hasn't yet demonstrated consistent follow-through.
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06-25-2017 , 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
Nah. Even though he's behind a wall of anonymity, I think there's value for him to make his statements semi-publicly because it has a higher chance of actually changing his internal thought processes.

Not that I think the chances are that high. The bulk of his list of "things I learned from this thread" were things that most adults could have figured out on their own by just spending a couple minutes in self-reflection.



Only the third one is something that I think is a piece of knowledge that really does require someone on the outside to speak into to understand (that's not to say that this isn't a conclusion he couldn't have reached by doing some preliminary background reading or something like that). But the others are things that people are usually able figure out on their own.

I mean, this is at least a start, and I don't want to take that away from him. But he's got a LONG way to go. And even that progress would probably have been impossible without having to face up to himself in a semi-public manner. Quoting him back at himself has proven itself to be the most effective tool so far in forcing some type of reflective attitude, but he hasn't yet demonstrated consistent follow-through.
If this is how gracious you are in victory, I can only imagine what sort of prick you are in defeat.
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06-25-2017 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
If this is how gracious you are in victory, I can only imagine what sort of prick you are in defeat.
This isn't about winning or losing. I just want you to stop posting stupid things and to be a more intelligent and well-reasoned person. Public shaming is nothing more than a means to an end. There are other ways things could have happened, but this is the route that you presented me with.
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