Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Problem of Evil (Heaven?)

04-10-2011 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gskowal
haha.. yeah... its amazing how some of those views christians have are so contradictory...
In heaven you can't rebel. The Angels did not have the Beatific vision of God. There's no contradiction if you actually try to understand the concept, yet it is obvious you do not.

The traditional view is that the Angels were revealed God's plan and told to worship Jesus Christ. Some didn't want to worship a human because He is flesh and spirit is higher than flesh, with Satan leading the rebellion. Some think not even angels can enter heaven without Christ first opening the way.
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-10-2011 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gskowal

Well , many Christians will tell you that unless you accept Jesus you are not going to heaven.. And they got a quote from the bible to back up this view...
Okay. I'm not one of those Christians, nor are the other billion Catholics in the world.

If I'm debating with you, I'm not going to take a claim you don't make and force you to take it unless I'm trying to be dishonest.
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-10-2011 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
Okay. I'm not one of those Christians, nor are the other billion Catholics in the world.

If I'm debating with you, I'm not going to take a claim you don't make and force you to take it unless I'm trying to be dishonest.
I am stating a fact though.. There are plenty of Christians who take that view... Who's to say who is right, them or you?
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-10-2011 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
In heaven you can't rebel. The Angels did not have the Beatific vision of God. There's no contradiction if you actually try to understand the concept, yet it is obvious you do not.
Yeah, I mean anything can be made up when it comes to stories that cannot be confirmed... One can come up with billion other excuses in order to make the contradictions disappear...
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-10-2011 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
What did I say that made you think I thought this?

Where, in all my posts on this forum, have I ever written that God that only rewards those who believe in Him?
Try reading your 6 points from that post as if you weren't a Christian and you might see just how in-group they are. Even if you believe that non-Christians can go to heaven (as others are starting to do now in order to avoid contradictions), you probably also believe that it's EASIER for a Christian...which is the only point I made. People who aren't Christians should not have a more difficult time getting a "good" afterlife simply because of where they were born or how their brain works.

I stand by my post. If you think the above is just, then you have a warped sense of justice. Is it really a non-Christian's fault that they don't accept the ludicrous claims you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
The “us” you’re referring to here isn’t really US (like me & you) is it? It’s more of an in-group “us.” Like “us Christians” or “us believers.” Those who happen to be of a different religion, or no religion at all, do not get to experience the same fairness that you speak of. If the Christian God is only just to the people who are likely to believe in him, then you have a warped sense of justice.
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-10-2011 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
Okay. I'm not one of those Christians, nor are the other billion Catholics in the world.
Do catholics believe Bin Laden and Hitler will go to heaven?

What about a mentally deranged guy that kills someone? Would he go to heaven or hell?
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-11-2011 , 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
you probably also believe that it's EASIER for a Christian...which is the only point I made.

You claim it's easier for Christians to get into heaven, but noone knows for sure. Christians have the sacraments and know the truth... but the Bible says 'To whom much is given much is expected." No one knows how hard/easy it is to get into heaven, only that everyone has a fair chance.

Secondly, even if Christians had a better chance of getting into heaven... any chance of getting into heaven is more than we deserve. Since we all deserve damnation for our sins, if God chooses to elect a few to heaven and save them, it is not unjust. It would be just to leave us all to die, but He conceived of a method in which to save us (through Christ). I think we have a different concept of what is due to us in this day; the Jews certainly felt they were due nothing from God and today we seem to think we are due everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB24
Do catholics believe Bin Laden and Hitler will go to heaven?

What about a mentally deranged guy that kills someone? Would he go to heaven or hell?

Bin Laden and Hitler could go to heaven if they sincerely repented before death.

A person sins mortally if three conditions are present:
1. Full knowledge
2. Full consent
3. Grave matter.

A mentally deranged matter may not have knowledge that killing is a sin or not have had consent in his actions since he is deranged, so his sin may not be deadly (mortal).
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-11-2011 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
You claim it's easier for Christians to get into heaven, but noone knows for sure.
I didn't claim anything. I said that is what you probably believe. If that is not what you believe, then correct me instead of attacking a belief I don't hold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
Secondly, even if Christians had a better chance of getting into heaven... any chance of getting into heaven is more than we deserve. Since we all deserve damnation for our sins, if God chooses to elect a few to heaven and save them, it is not unjust. It would be just to leave us all to die, but He conceived of a method in which to save us (through Christ). I think we have a different concept of what is due to us in this day; the Jews certainly felt they were due nothing from God and today we seem to think we are due everything.
It's nice to see that your sense of benevolence is equally as warped as your sense of justice.
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-13-2011 , 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madnak
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you can't imagine how heaven could work you need to do more psychedelics.
...

BRB.
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote
04-13-2011 , 01:33 AM
Dont drop the brown cid or you might imagine the other place.
Problem of Evil (Heaven?) Quote

      
m