Ironically, your last statement here makes my point for me.

but it's only fear of God that's preventing the theists from acting similarly.

I think he only really presents a caricature of himself

Why can't God not do what he wants?

Why does God have to be fair?

Why would God care about your wee thoughts and feelings sweetheart?

In Ezekiel 18, God is fairly adamant that he is just. To the point where he promises life to those who obey his laws and death to those who do not. It would seem his promises get forgotten easily.

Granted there are a few more million Gods than this one, and this one also seems to come in a few million versions. We'll disregard all those others different ones as "false". I think that is fitting, because this one here is fairly adamant that having other Gods is a bad idea in an earlier chapter.

Sadly I'm paraphrasing this out of context, and the fact that the entire Chapter is about the justness of God is completely irrelevant, and I'm probably stupid because I'm not fluent in the connotations of Old Aramaic/Hebrew/Autobot cross-cultural interactions and failed to account for this.

Such is life.

Exactly.

And he doesn't put God in a good light either. God doesn't care about the goodness or badness in our hearts. Hes shallow and like most two bit human dictators just wants submission through fear. Heaven will be a place full of murderous sinful intent being held back by a bully.

Although id agree with uke_master. He holds a special hate of the atheist. And the commie lefty's. Which are usually one in the same.

I have him on ignore for a while tbh so I only see those posts that people quote but it seems his hatred is boundless if a little more intense when directed at lefty atheists.

Idk. I guess ive seen him go after the Muslims too. So maybe im wrong and he just hates everyone.


Either way its a ridiculous caricature. Im a strong atheist when it comes to the idea i will be judged after death for my wrongs. Not going to happen.

But literally every day i have opportunity to do things i think are wrong and not get caught. I dont the vast majority of time. Why? Not because some overseer or law or chance of jail is keeping me in check. Its because me feeling bad for doing things i think are wrong is.



And you would think the biblical God would like that. Feeling bad for doing wrong is basically repentance. Not sure how he could repent if its just fear of punishment getting him to ask for forgiveness.

[ ] I unfairly characterized all atheists as evil.
[ ] I hate everyone.
[ ] I claimed that God doesn't care about what is in our hearts.

[X] Some people exhibiting symptoms of a persecution complex that they sometimes charge Christians with.
[X] People talking about Doggg when they have him on ignore.
[X] People doing everything possible to draw the discussion from the content of the arguments and instead making the discussion personal.
[X] Mob behavior exhibited.

Why is this the only thing?

You'd have to ask Doggg

I'm not making a claim that atheists sin any more than Christians do. But they certainly might have a different approach to sin, and they sin within a different context, I'd say.

The truth is that all of our sins (Christian or atheist) have to be accounted for, and the wages have to be paid, one way or the other. Christ already paid for the sins of the believer. A non-believer rejects Christ's sacrifice. It is like a man in court who is charged with horrific crimes acting as his own lawyer, even though he could hire the best lawyer to have ever lived.

Or rather, a deal has been struck to get him off, with some stipulations, but he rejects the deal, believing that he is truly innocent, and it will be determined as such come judgment.

[X] You characterized all strong atheists as evil.

The presentation here implies that all strong atheists as living by a particular philosophy as a consequence of their strong atheism.

A Christian becomes a new creation when he is converted. The Spirit of God comes to live inside of him. He might find himself desiring to do things he never desired before- such as communion in prayer, evangelism or selfless charity. However, I'm sure there are many paths to sin.

But this is not at all what I am talking about (and seems like a diversion). I was talking about hell, and how it would be unjust for those who don't believe in an afterlife or judgment to be granted the world they DO believe in- because it seems to justify their non-belief, and clears them of their sins, to boot.

What did Christ die for if there is no judgment? What do you need a mediator for? You certainly don't need anyone to stand in your stead, in that case.

I did not. Nor does the quotation above demonstrate that, as is evidenced by your careful use of the word "implied."

Here is what I wrote:

Edit: Though, to be fair, I do believe that being a strong atheist makes it much easier to justify sins, or a lifestyle of sin, or to act immoral as long as you are confident that you will not get caught. I have said as much before. But I am not characterizing every strong atheist as a murderer.

As someone has pointed out Doggggg you could type 'theist' where you see 'atheist' and just add 'repents' at the very end and it would be exactly the same.

In fact I would argue that on the whole theists have done far more atrocious things following their beliefs than atheists ever have in not believing in dieties.

It sounds like you do this in more than one thread and hence why people think you paint atheists in a terrible light.

Full disclosure I'm an atheist so I may be biased.

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This is what I meant, that it's not just about *having* to do things, necessarily, nothing is that simple, especially not motivations.

Indeed, and in my characterization of your statements I was clear that I said it was a fabricated anecdote not a general statement (even though the wording is ambiguous as Aaron points out with the "so"). But the difference isn't really important to me.

What I am identifying is a pattern whereby you put these horrendous characteristics upon (some/all/i don't care which) atheists. In my case, you told me I didn't care about dead christian children murdered by muslims. Now you have this example of a psychopathic murdered killing without a shred of remorse then going home and tucking his children in at night.

I don't think examples like this represent even the tiniest bit any atheist or theist I have ever encountered. It seems like incredibly alarmist anecdotes that have no validity or importance on any point outside of a sort of gleeful typing away on the keyboard about the evils of atheists.

I don't need Christ to have died for my sins for me not to want to murder someone. I don't need to fear damnation for me not to want to murder someone and my thinking I can get away with it is no cause for me to want to murder someone.

Can you actually name such atrocious acts that atheists haven't done? Murder, rape, genocide, mutilation, etc...all have been done by both. What horrible act have I missed that is exclusively done by some deists?

One quick thing I would note is that, speaking of the Christian God, unbelief is a sin, in itself. So while Christians are not exempt of doing horrible things, the atheist is in a constant state of disobedience, and general enmity with God.

You bring this up in almost every post you make now. Beside the fact that I never said that, if you are going to make every single post personal, you are more than welcome to. But I will not announce to the board that I am not longer interested in debate, or that I see atheists as spiritual donkeys, no matter how much you may like me to.

You said this:
The "them" presumably includes me since I was one of the two people you quoted in your post that said this.

This is an appalling insinuation to make to somebody. Granted, you have the qualifiers "seem" and "suspect", but I have now repeatedly asked in the original thread and now this one (and not others, i believe, as you seem to suggest) for you to retract the insinuation. You have steadfastly refused to do so, which makes your qualifiers rather moot.

The point, consistent between that thread and this one, is these appalling descriptions of certain atheists as psychopaths without flinch of emotion at the idea of murdering people, of children being murdered, and so on. At least in this thread the insinuation doesn't seem to be that I personally am such a person. So I ask the same question you have refused to ask in both threads: can you give a single quote from a single person in the history of this forum that suggests, in any way, that they would be so cold blooded about either murdering themselves or children being murdered?

I'm not sure I see what you're trying to point out here, could you elaborate?

I was pointing out to Doggg that his choice of using 'atheist' in his post about a psychopath who murders without fear of consequences was a concious decision by Doggg to paint atheists in a terrible light. Or at least thats what other posters are claiming based on his posting history.

One could simply substitute any theist person in that post provided their religion allows for some sort of purification (or even doesn't care about murder at all) and as long as that person performed the purification they too would have no fear of consequnce.

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While the atheist and theist may agree that one can avoid murder and other negative behaviours, presumably the atheist does not see these as sinful, as the theist would define 'sinful'.

I think this is part of the problem that arises, since they seemingly agree with the first premise, but in reality, they have not agreed.

Edit: just_grindin, this is what I'm alluding to, that we are speaking of two different things to begin with. The atheist would presumably define murder as evil, but not sinful, since sin does not exist.