a preacher claims dinosaurs existed in biblical times - Page 9 - Religion, God, and Theology

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a preacher claims dinosaurs existed in biblical times

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01-23-2010 , 05:14 PM

#201

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

You might have to read this carefully to follow along.

Shem is one of the 3 sons of Noah....

All races of the whole earth branched out from these 3 sons after the earth was flooded....

Shem is recorded to have 5 sons -Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.

Arphaxed had Salah. Salah had Eber and Eber had two sons. One was Peleg the other was Joktan.

Joktan had many sons, one of is sons was named Jobab, who is claimed to be who the book of Job is written about.

One of Shem's other sons Aram who was the brother of Joktan, had a son named Uz.

Job according to the bible dwelt in the land of Uz.....

Uz was Job's/Jobab's uncle......

A side note: Peleg the brother of Joktan, was born during the time that the earth was divided according to the bible.

By divided I mean when the earth was once one large land mass that divided into seperate continents in a VERY quick amount of time

Not in thousands of years as some suggest, more like in less than 5O years, my honest guess would be more like less than 10 years.

The name Peleg basically means "division". He was named that because that was what was going on at the time of His birth. The earth was vehemently being divided by massive earthquakes.

There is a whole lot more to learn about this for those who care to know.

Yes! Dinosaurs did roam on the earth but not with any man who lived from Adam and Eve onward...

Dinasaurs ONLY existed BEFORE Adam and Eve in the world that was, in the first heaven and earth that was destroyed by a War in the spiritual realm that was so violent that it destroyed many, many physical things including life on earth.

The people that lived at this time BEFORE Adam and Eve did exist and their remains are foind all the time. Any evidence of the remains of any being that can honestly be proven to be over 6,000 years old came from the first heaven and earth.

These people did not have the same genetics as you and I. They are not of the bloodline of Adam and Eve.

Last edited by Pletho; 01-23-2010 at 05:21 PM.

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01-23-2010 , 07:19 PM

#202

NotReady

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Arouet

Well, given that the contrast is to the "heavens" doesn't it make more sense that we're talking about the whole planet (well, to them, the earth they saw around them may have represented the whole planet, they would not have had a concept of planet as we do, obv.

RTB takes this position:

Quote:

So, when were the Sun, Moon and stars created? Genesis 1:1 tells us, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The Hebrew phrase "the heavens and the earth" (hashamayim we ha' erets) refers to the entire universe, entire creation and everything that can be seen or has physical existence.11 This indicates the heavenly bodies -- the Earth, Sun, Moon, stars and other planets -- were created "in the beginning" prior to the six creation "days."

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01-23-2010 , 07:50 PM

#203

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotReady

RTB takes this position:

We need to see your comments on the rest of the posts in this thread.

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01-23-2010 , 08:25 PM

#204

Jibninjas

Stuck in a While loop

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 11,612

Quote:

I've heard some claim Job is a play but I think the ancient Jews saw Job as a real person.

The play aspect is in regards to the writing style. That does not necessarily mean that people thought Job did not exist.

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01-23-2010 , 08:43 PM

#205

starvingwriter82

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibninjas

The play aspect is in regards to the writing style. That does not necessarily mean that people thought Job did not exist.

Some prominent Rabbis and scholars did/do, there's evidence of this position from as early as the second century.

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01-23-2010 , 09:21 PM

#206

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

You all can ignore my posts as much as you would like. What I am saying is true and will stay truth forever.

I know that what I say is not the norm but everything I say can be backed up biblically. Which is the true test of truth.

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01-23-2010 , 11:27 PM

#207

starvingwriter82

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

everything I say can be backed up biblically

But then...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

the first heaven and earth that was destroyed by a War in the spiritual realm that was so violent that it destroyed many, many physical things including life on earth.

The people that lived at this time BEFORE Adam and Eve did exist and their remains are foind all the time. Any evidence of the remains of any being that can honestly be proven to be over 6,000 years old came from the first heaven and earth.

These people did not have the same genetics as you and I. They are not of the bloodline of Adam and Eve.

AFAIK, this is pure speculation. Bible quotes please to refute me.

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01-23-2010 , 11:53 PM

#208

Pletho

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Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by starvingwriter82

But then...

AFAIK, this is pure speculation. Bible quotes please to refute me.

If I laid this out to you from the bible would that make you believe? If you are an atheist I dont think so, so I would be wasting my time.

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01-24-2010 , 01:59 AM

#209

NotReady

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Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

We need to see your comments on the rest of the posts in this thread.

This is a long thread and I'm pretty sure I didn't read it when it was first developing. You will have to be more specific about what you would like a comment on - I just don't have the time to read through the whole thing.

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01-24-2010 , 05:13 AM

#210

The Financier

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

By divided I mean when the earth was once one large land mass that divided into seperate continents in a VERY quick amount of time

Not in thousands of years as some suggest, more like in less than 5O years, my honest guess would be more like less than 10 years.

O come on. Pangaea to the divided continents in 10 years let alone 50 is an absolute joke.

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01-24-2010 , 05:43 AM

#211

Pletho

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Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Financier

O come on. Pangaea to the divided continents in 10 years let alone 50 is an absolute joke.

Why is it such a joke? I am not saying that the land masses were as they are now. I am saying that they were completly split up definately under 50 years.

Why is that hard to imagine?

Its 100% possible.

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01-24-2010 , 02:19 PM

#212

brianpower

journeyman

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

You might have to read this carefully to follow along.

Shem is one of the 3 sons of Noah....

All races of the whole earth branched out from these 3 sons after the earth was flooded....

How long ago did this happen, 4 or 5000 years?

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01-24-2010 , 02:52 PM

#213

starvingwriter82

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

If I laid this out to you from the bible would that make you believe? If you are an atheist I dont think so, so I would be wasting my time.

Six years at a Christian university, several courses in theology and rigorous Bible study, and several readings of the Bible in whole and in part over the course of 20 years.

If you laid this out to me, would this make me believe? No, probably not. However, such extraordinary claims should take half an hour or less to back up if they're actually in the Bible.

I'm saying they aren't, as far as I know. I'm not trying to be a jerk or make you go through useless work, but I am saying that I think you're making stuff up (perhaps convincing yourself in the process, so you're not even aware that you are?), and calling bull****.

That's all. Letting it stand, if that's your choice, is okay with me. I just know there are plenty of intelligent people in this forum who have less Bible knowledge than me and might actually think the Bible says that stuff.

If I can be pointed in the proper direction with some Bible chapters, then I can look into it, and will happily revise my position.

Until then, I call bull****.

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01-24-2010 , 03:09 PM

#214

starvingwriter82

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

I believe it was called a joke due to lack of evidence for the position, though I could be wrong, I'm not really a science guy when it comes down to it.

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01-24-2010 , 05:18 PM

#215

Pletho

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Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianpower

How long ago did this happen, 4 or 5000 years?

Less than 6,000 years ago.

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01-24-2010 , 05:27 PM

#216

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by starvingwriter82

If you understand systematic teaching then you can learn this stuff. Many times during systematic study you will find by way of logical deduction that many truths are not spelled out right. You get a basic out line and thats it. No details. Because the details to some things are not important. Like dinasoaurs. Thats not important in the whole scheme of life at all, especially concerning eternal life.

The word of God sets many boundries and timelines and in Genesis their is a timeline and time period set that allows for the whole prehistoric age to have existed and yet not contradict any of the bible.

Most people when they read the bible only wee whats on the surface, the english words. But when you get to the words behind the english words the depth and truth conveyed is by far greater at times.

Again I am not sure if I want to spend the time posting this stuff. Because in the grand scheme of things its not that important.

If you have obeyed Romans 10:9,10 from the heart, then you have eternal life and thats great.......

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01-24-2010 , 06:45 PM

#217

starvingwriter82

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

You claimed to know something specific about the time before Adam and Eve, not me. Saying the Bible allows for the whole prehistoric age to exist says nothing about the things you claimed to know were true.

In regards to what you said earlier, one of the following is true:

1. What you claimed is written in the Bible somewhere

or

2. You have information or revelation about the topic that is not from the Bible

or

3. You are making **** up.

Since this is a religion, God, and theology forum, and you are a prominent member here, it is of course of keen interest to know which one of those three things in the case.

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01-24-2010 , 08:17 PM

#218

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by starvingwriter82

This is a post I made awhile back....

Re: Possible Explanations for Genesis Post #51

Quote:

The Bible speaks of three heavens. These three heavens, however, are not in layers, but rather in sequence — three different periods of time.

These are all set forth in II Peter. The first heaven and earth of
Genesis 1:1 is spoken of in II Peter 3:6 as “the world
that then was.”

II Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed
with water, perished.

“Being overflowed with water, perished” does not
refer to the flood of Noah’s time.

The word “perished” refers to the “destruction” as recorded in
Genesis 1:2.

The second heaven and earth is noted in the following verse of II Peter 3.

II Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

“The heavens and the earth which are now” is the second heaven and earth, the. substance which God put in order after the first creation became “without form and void.”

Verse 13 of II Peter 3 tells of the third heaven and earth.

II Peter 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

“New heavens* and a new earth” is the third heaven and earth.

There is plenty more evidence than this, this is just a small amount of scripture, if you really want to honestly learn more, can talk outside this forum, I am not going to post a long teaching on here....

Here is more of the post continued........

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet

Quote:

Obviously I'm not a biblical scholar, but since there is a story which directly talks about the world flooding and almost everyone perishing, doesn't it stand to reason that Peter would be referring to Noah's flood? Why would he be so deliberately misleading, knowing that the great majority of people who heard his words would make the natural assumption that he was referring to the flood they knew so much about?

We talk about context: just a page earlier Peter is talking about Noah. ( 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly)

And a few lines later he's talking about God's promise (3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.)(isn't that the promise not to kill all of man again, following the flood?)

So I really don't see how you get that Peter was talking about anything other than the flood since that seems to be the whole context of the discussion.

I agree that in the previous chapter it talks about Noah’s flood but this specifically calls your attention to another time frame other than the flood of Noah.

The reason Noah’s time was brought up is to make a comparison, to make sure people understand that what God says will happen, will happen. It will happen when people least expect it such as it did in Noah’s time. Like a thief in the night. The flood happened suddenly, the only one prepared was Noah and his family BECAUSE he BELIEVED in Gods word.

The following verses simply are saying that the scoffers that will come in the lasts times are ignorant, willingly ignorant, meaning they had the knowledge of the truth available to them but they refuse to believe it.

This is exactly what goes on here on this forum and in the world today. Knowledge is being taught about the word of God but people willingly refuse it, therefore they are ignorant of it.

This next verse brings you back BEFORE the flood of Noah’s time. They (the scoffers) are saying

Quote:

” that all things continue as they were from the beginning",

meaning nothing is happening but time going by.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers (all the patriarchs, all the believers from Adam on) fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

From the beginning of creation goes back BEFORE Adam and Eve and the Patriarchs, it goes back to cover all times, including the first heaven and earth that according to Genesis 1:2 became "tohu va bahu", empty and a wasteland.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was (became) without form (tohu), and void (bahu); and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon

This is talking about after the heaven and earth were initially created they became a without form and void. In the Hebrew there is no word for was, it actually is the word became, this same word is used many time in the bible as became, and there are other scriptures in Isaiah that talk about the world becoming tahu va bahu.

Back to Peter-

2Pe 3:5 For this they (the scoffers of the lasts times) willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

They are willingly ignorant of what the bible teaches about creation and HOW it came about even though they have been taught and heard about it.

Not a lot of Christians have been taught about the first heaven and earth because not to many people know HOW to rightly divide the word of God.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

If there is going to be third heaven and earth, then that means there is a second heaven and earth and there was also a first heaven and earth.

If you are right that these verses are speaking about Noah’s flood, then that would mean that there is a missing time frame, a missing heaven and earth, because the one that was destroyed before Adam and Eve is not accounted for in your logic.

Noah’s time was the second heaven and earth, the same one that we live in now, the earth ONLY was overflowed with water but not destroyed, the heavens were not touched at all.

But before that the original first heaven and earth became completely destroyed by a war in heaven.

Then it was rebuilt by the word of God, speaking things back into being, back into order.

The earth was made habitable again by God and then man was created again to re-plenish the earth that had at one time been inhabited by men (the men that lived before Adam and Eve, along with all the dinosaurs).

These men, and this time BEFOREHAND are the missing answers to the Neanderthals, cro magnum, dinosaurs and any thing that the scientist want to say is older than 6,000 years old.

I know its hard to follow this, because there are gaps that need to be filled in but if you do not believe the word of God, then it really does not matter, because they only way you are going to understand or anyone else for that matter is to first believe what it written in the word of God.

If you do not believe the words written then you cannot and will not understand things like this, it takes a broad scope of knowledge of the word and someone who can lay it out line by line and word by word.

Which I can do, but not on this forum. And not just to prove my point. In the big scheme of things this type of knowledge is really not practical, its not livable, it will not guarantee you eternal life to know this.

Only Romans 10:9,10 will do that.

Last edited by Pletho; 01-24-2010 at 08:22 PM.

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01-27-2010 , 01:01 AM

#219

bonsaltron

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

where did you study earth science?

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01-27-2010 , 01:42 AM

#220

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonsaltron

where did you study earth science?

I have a very nice piece of research called "In The Days Of Peleg - Rethinking the theory of continental drift with the bible" By Patrick Hansen, published by Thunder Mountain Press, in VT.

Its a pretty good read IF you can find it...........

I has over at least 20 years of research involved not only in earth sciences but biblical research.

Its filled with scientific data and charts and the such for the techy type who like that stuff.................lol..........

If you want a copy of it you can probably get it from

Thunder Mountain Press
P.O. Box 1099
Williston, VT 05495-1099

for about 10.00 if they still exist and if its still in print.........

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01-27-2010 , 09:57 AM

#221

xxmagicianxx

adept

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,105

Ah Thunder Mountain Press, publishers of NYT bestsellers you know and love such as:

Jesus: Is Really ****ing Awesome

and

Christian: LOL if You Aren't One

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01-27-2010 , 12:17 PM

#222

kurto

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I actually wasted 10 minutes doing Yahoo and Google searches to see if I could find any reference to Pletho's book. I can't think of the last time I did a broad internet search and couldn't find anything. As best I can tell, he made it up. If not, its pretty non-influential since I had no hits and would take more time then its worth to hunt it down.

Why is everytime I change my mind and read a pletho post I find I've done nothing but waste time?