My fiancé went on an interview for an actuarial position at an insurance company. The interviewers took her to lunch. Before the meal, one of the interviewers asked if it was ok to say grace. My fiancé obviously didn't object and neither did the other people there. Said interviewer makes the sign of the cross and asks God to bless them and the meal.

Thoughts?

Legality?

lol funny story but who cares? she should have pretended to pray, would prob help her get hired.

if they were asking about it during the actual interview that would be different. he didn't ask her about her religious views.

The interveiwer has the right under the constitution to the free excercise of her religion.

Yea, pretty misleading thread title, if they were in an interview setting and she brought up Christianity in reference to the job or something like that that's one thing.. In a public place and went out of their way to ask permission to boot?

THE HORROR!

seriously, who cares?

As a staunch atheists I can honestly say that this is absolutely fine.

miss leading title bigtime.

What makes you guys think the interview process was over? Many interviews are conducted over lunch.

Also, what would have happened if she had objected? I think it's reasonable for her to assume it would have hurt her job chances if she refused to participate. Therefore, it's discrimination and wrong.

she wasn't asked to "participate" in anything. Read again

If someone starts talking politics in a job interview (or post-interview lunch) and you make a controversial statement, it would probably hurt your chances of getting the job, too. If someone wants to pray for the food, what "real" objection do you have? Don't make a scene and don't worry about it.

On the flip side, if you're a religious person interviewee and volunteer to pray for your interviewers' food, do you think that would hurt your chances of getting the job (assuming the interviewer is not religious)? Is this not "religious discrimination"? (Answer: No, it's not. The interviewee volunteered this and created the awkward situation.)

In general, being socially inept is bad for your chances of getting a job.

Being socially inept is actually a requirement to be an actuary. But seriously, what company lets someone who needs to pray before lunch, take interviewees out for lunch? Let someone else take the lunch interview and let the lunch prayer get a different time slot.

What if they were Satanists? I kid mostly....


@OP I wouldn't care if a Christian (or a Satanist) prayed for me. If they asked me to pray then i would have to tell them i dont believe Jesus is my savior.

If I worked for a company that wouldn't allow me to take interviewees out to lunch simply on the basis that I prayed grace before each meal I'd sue and win.

Saying she can't take an interviewee out to lunch because she prays grace before meals isn't any different then saying she can't drink from a particular water cooler because she isn't white.

Now the fiancee may have a case that she was discriminated against, but to make it she has to show some actual discrimination. The fact that one of her interviewers prayed grace isn't an act of discrimination.

Well, they could simply refuse you a managerial position in hiring. You wouldn't want a hiring manager who picks his nose openly during lunch either.

Not being allowed to discriminate on religious grounds can hardly translate to "must disregard any religious ritual's effect on job performance".

If that's the case I'm moving the US, getting a job and refusing to show up on religious grounds.

Unlike the UK, in the United States nose pickers are not a protected class.

Good luck on keeping a job after refusing to show up on religious grounds. Employers are only required to make reasonable accomodations. For instance it would be unreasonable for an employer to violate a collective bargining agreement just to accomodate an employees request to have Sundays off for religious reasons. No court would ever find it unreasonable for an employee to take 15 seconds to say grace during their meal period.

God if i was god i would get bored ****less of people saying thanks for their food three times a day, no wonder he puts his fingers in his ears and ignores so many other useful prayers.

Maybe, but then you have to have an arbitrary definition of what's reasonable. If you pray. You go home. Thirty four Somali Muslims suspended indefinitely from their jobs for praying.

EDIT: Later they were given the option to sign a document agreeing to abide by the policy (must clock out), but 26 of them did not comply and were fired.

We are not talking about "an employee", we are talking about a hiring manager. You don't need a hiring manager who scares off competence.

Also, I'm not from the UK. In my country the behavior described here would be considered rude, especially by someone in a power-position like hiring and whom you just met... nosepicking is a fairly apt comparison. Maybe an even better one would be if people suddenly started speaking in a language the new person at the table did not understand.

Everything is arbitrary in law. Murder is the unlawful killing a human being. If a law was passed saying it is lawful to kill gingers....then killing gingers is not murder(under the law). The reason abortion in the United States is not considered murder is because the courts determined it was lawful to kill human beings who have yet to reach a certain gestational age.

In the United States a hiring manager is considered an employee. Employees are generally split into two categories....exempt(managerial) and non exempt(non managerial). Our constitution does not descriminate between exempt and non exempt employees. Further, except in very rare and specific instances neither do our labor laws.

Heh, well ok... you go around treating all hiring as McDonald's recruiting from the endless line of the unemployed.

I have actually worked with hiring, and the importance of being polite, professional and remembering that you represent the recruiter can't really be stressed enough. I had started sprouting anti-religious sentiments on the grounds that I have "freedom of speech" to candidates, I would not have been doing my job.

However, if you want to grandstand my constitutional right to do such a thing and keep my job... fine by me.

We are not discussing your situation. Maybe the McDonalds you work for can discriminate against an employee because they wish to take 15 seconds or so to pray grace before a meal period because such action is legal in your country but that is not the case in the USA.

The fiancee only has a cause of action if she can show she has been treated unfavorably because of her religious beleifs(or lack thereof). The fact that an interveiwer prayed grace before a meal is not evidence the fiancee was treated unfavorably because of her religious beliefs.

However if the company decided not to allow the religious manager to interveiw employees over a meal, while continueing to allow other managers to engage in the practice, that would be evidence for being treated unfavorably because of religious beliefs.

I have hired hundreds of people in this country and I have an education in HR management. I don't claim to be an expert in labor law, but I suspect I am a lot more likely to give a useful opinion on the matter then you.

I just can't see how this is true. If this person were praying to something much more unfashionable, Zeus for instance, you don't think this reflects poorly on the company and the company should have the right to stop him from interviewing employees over a meal if he refuses to not pray?

It doesn't matter what you think is true or not or what is actually right or wrong or whether or not it reflects poorly on the company or not. What matters is what is written in the law and on this matter the law is quite clear. In the United States you cannot take unfavorable action against an employee(exempt or otherwise) because of their religious beliefs. Further employers are required to reasonably accomodate an employees religious belefs.

Now before you decide to start asking your employer to make reasonable accomodations toward your religious beliefs, I suggest you find out what has been deemed reasonable and what has been deemed unreasonable.

Where would I find this, and who defines what has been deemed unreasonable?

The courts....so you would look at caselaw.

But if you wanted a starting point to get a general ideal..try the EEOC.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/qanda_religion.html

It is a case of common sense mostly. I don't see what tree you guys are humping here.