Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
That would be disappointing.
Well, that's the way I've been told the story, I'm happy to hear competing views and that was part of my question and I have understood you to have confirmed it.
Two things: I don't have to believe in god to argument from inside that framework.
As to whether I am unresolved as to the issue of God: well of course I am! My position is that it is most likely there is no god, not absolutely there is no god. I also tend to believe that if there is a supreme being who created the world, the chance that any one religion got it right is very small. This is based on the fact that there have been thousands of different religions over time with widely different views and billions of different interpretations.
I will say that if I did believe this point of view - and I don't mean this hyperbollically - that I would have decided not to have children. The fact there was a significant chance that they could end up in eternal torment, despite my best efforts to avoid that for them, would be enough to say that I know I will love them too much to expose them to such harm.
But how does one flow from the other? You can say you suspect you don't have the capacity, but what is that based on? Because there is a being with immense power? That doesn't suspend the powers of judgment that being ostensibly gave you.
Can you honestly tell me that you are comfortable with millions (billions?) of people suffering from everlasting hell, even though they were basically good people, who had heard about Jesus, but decided nevertheless to stick with the religion of their upbringing, the religion their parents told them was true? Their own preachers told them was true. The muslim whose never attacked anyone. The jew who goes to shul every Saturday. The Buddhist who meditates under the tree? They all get everlasting punishment if they've heard of Jesus and rejected him right? Heck, in your versioin even Jeffrey Dahmer gets to go to heaven!
But if the 2 year was put in the bedroom for the rest of his life, you would find that horrifying. And if the parent started burning the kid, even more so. A parent's dominion is not absolute. If the parent becomes abusive they lose the right.
I can be a twelve year being spanked by my parents and thinking they are monsters but being wrong. Or I can be the same kid having the **** kicked out of me by my parents and thinking they are monsters and being right. Agreed there are times where the inferior being can't properly judge the superior one. There will be plenty of times for misunderstanding, but some things just cross that line where it is clear.
As for the "greater plan", once you get to "everlasting", the whole "greater plan" thing has to go out the window right? The plan is over. Fini. It's just the punishment stage now, for ever.
I really am interested in theists' take on this.
Like most believers I think God has provided through his son and his word a way out of the predicament of death. As Jesus says God is the "God of the living".
If you're truly unresolved then read his word with an open mind starting with the Gospels. Better yet "hear his word". If you can't or won't go to a church get some cds or dvds. The bible says "faith is by hearing".
The word of God is so precious that historically in Italy and Greece you see processions of believers with little children holding the book up high while they walk through the city. Why? Because the Word is from a purely good, innocent and holy source.
That is why priests kiss the book. That's why the book is set up high and given central place in a church.
God does work through symbology. Symbology is timeless and it transcends generation after generation. Some things like the innocence of children is timeless.
One of the aims of the devil is to slander God and make you think he's "a monster". He attacks our thinking.
So I'm glad you are still open minded but such open minded is precious. Protect it because its the home of "the pearl beyond price". Pick people of good character to discuss the bible with. That's the best advice I can give you.
Atheists are very intelligent for the most part. But from intellectual pride they have bought the lie from the devil. Always remember the devil slanders God to deny and steal his true worship and to cut off people from his saving power.
