seems like an insect is an animal so i guess moses had to stick a few ants on his boat too.

I think it's worse than this. Knowing that the human brain is versatile enough to believe something as ridiculous as the Noah story freaks me the **** out. It makes me want to reevaluate everything I believe!

I think Jib and most others who believe the Noah Ark story are major victims of child abuse. (I'm sure most of us sympathize with these people even though their inane arguments piss us off so much) What worries me is the fact that Jib and others will likely never recognize how mentally abused they once were, which means that our brains can be screwed with to such a point that not only will it believe in super crazy bat **** but it will also believe it was never screwed with.

I think this makes it a lock that I'm severely deluded in some huge way that I'll never see. The fact that I'm less deluded than someone who believes in the Noah story isn't very comforting. I'm fine with the brain having a few glitches, but THIS? Not THIS!

hope he was wise enough to grab the ones that can reproduce

I really could care less about the story and it gives me no comfort. Just because you are mildly ******ed and cannot come up with a legit argument does not give you the right to say there is something wrong with me. Please keep you dime store psycho bable to yourself. ty.

lol, legit argument? Step around the amateur psychoanalysis (which, if you were an atheist, you'd be treated to via Splendour every day or so). How about the fact that just about every aspect of the Ark story is so obviously false that believing it makes you basically appear incapable of any quantitative reasoning at all? You believe there are metaphors in the Bible, I assume, and the Ark story is completely outlandish and ridiculous, so why not just take the position that it's a metaphor?

Jib do you believe the measurements of the Ark stated here?

Genesis 6:15 "And this [is the fashion] which thou shalt make it [of]: The length of the ark [shall be] three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. 16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; [with] lower, second, and third [stories] shalt thou make it." [KJV]

"Noah's Ark was taller than a 3-story building and had a deck area the size of 36 lawn tennis courts. Its length was 300 cubits (450 feet, or 135 meters); its width was 50 cubits (75 feet, or 22.5 meters); it had three stories and its height was 30 cubits (45 feet, or 13.5 meters)."

I ask again for you to read through this from an earlier thread. I will preface it with the following- I started to do calculations for weight and mass for just keeping a few animals fed and some notes on byproducts (er-- poop). In the part below I was being generous saying that there was only 200 animals. The sites you listed suggest there were 16K animals. Also, my figures were based on 40 days and nights... when in reality it was supposed to be for 150 days to a year. So any figures below can be multiplied by 4.

By the way, the article you posted mentions the poop and says that the poop could be filtered to the bottom of the boat and then Noah's family would just throw it overboard. We are talking about literally TONS of feces deposited every day. The rebuttal dismisses it as manageable that 8 people would feed 16K animals and shovel multiple tons of poop every day. You really think that sounds realistic?

As the last paragraph explains... for 4 animal pairs listed, they would have to acquire and store 50,000 pounds of vegetation and 1000 pounds of meat and have access to 4000 gallons of fresh water. That doesn't address the needs of the additional 15,992 animals on board or that of the crew.

This doesn't sound ridiculous to you when you think about the details?

What I'm trying to say is there's something drastically wrong with the human brain. The very fact that you think I need to come up with a legit argument to sway your position tells me this.

Now someone else may say, "No, this just means Jib is ignorant when it comes to logic. He doesn't understand a very basic principle that a claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

But I think the fact that we even have to learn logic, and so many humans struggle with logic tells me our brains are in dire need of an upgrade.

Also, I don't need to come up with a legit argument. Have you read through this thread. There are many outstanding arguments that show the Noah story could never happen.

You have no problem with understanding that Mother Goose never happened yet the Noah Story convinces you. That's how I know you're a major victim of mental child abuse.

Yup.

Though I'd like to think the arguments already provided would easily sway you, I thought I would post some notes from wikipedia on Noah's Ark.

First-
The article goes on to explain how even early Christians considered the story allegorical and wrote about the meanings of the story.

Also-
I checked the footnotes in the article to see what the reference was that said many christians did not believe. They referenced this quote from Thomas Huxley in 1890 re Noah's Ark. Over 100 years ago, it would appear that educated Christians weren't taking the story to be literal...

If it was a world wide flood caused by rain and upwelling of water from the depths of the earth like the myth says. It would of diluted the oceans and created brackish conditions killing all salt water and fresh water creatures. They must of had some kick ass fish tanks on that boat to fit blue whales.

If the whole Earth were to flood you would need 5 times the water that is currently available on Earth. The Bible says that the result of the flood was rain for 40 days and nights.... If it rained for 40 days and 40 nights an amount of 5 times the water that is present on Earth today... the pressure of that much precipitation in the air would crush your lungs.

Evidence against Noah's Ark story - see the posts in this thread.
Evidence for Noah's Ark story - the Bible said so.

Hmmmm. Here's a situation where 80 someodd posts in a random internet thread on a random forum COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE the inerrancy of the Bible.

It's ok though, you can still play the metaphorical card (because it's the only way out of the corner and into protecting the Bible's inerrant status).

I think we lost Jib in this thread... btw where is Erf?

The Bible says that the fountains of the depths were partly responsible, not just rain. Supposedly God had stores of caped water in the depths of the earth that he unleashed.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

But yea even if you round up every drop of water flooding the earth would be impossible.

It's 2009 and a debate on the potential for the Noah's Ark story to be true is 7+ pages long. How depressing is that.

EDIT: Blue Whales FTW

The theists have left the premises so the thread may die soon.

Jib eating a nice McPwnd right now

Maybe if you guys weren't such a-holes he wouldn't have left. (Not you specifically, but there's been a very abrasive and insulting tone from atheists in this thread.)

I have been looking into this more. I have not found a timeline that people like Dr. Hugh Ross put the flood in. It seems apparent that they are not putting it anywhere near what YEC's do. Ross talks about farming and such showing up as far as 15,000 years ago in various parts of the world. So he does not believe that the flood happened after that. He also talks about the bottleneck and how is supports the biblical view of creation. So right now I do not have answer as to timeline.

This is not a strong area for me yet. Really until I came to SMP I would have been classified as a YEC. Of course I had not put any real thought into it at all and never once investigated it at all. It was not until I started posting in SMP did I do research and find out how wrong I was both biblically and scientifically. So I am still working though things.

Once I have a better answer I will let you know.

As far as the rest of the arguments, not really worth responding to any longer. You guys can even go on a YEC website to get your answers. That is how ridiculous your questions are.

I am now done with this thread.

lol, so its the questions that are ridiculous and not the YEC answers. Christian arrogance ftw.

The problem is that the same sections in the bible that say ____ lived 950 years also say ____ begat _____ at an age of 20-30 years.

Kind of kills the "month" theory for me.