Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyboosh
Because the group that knew that they were being prayed for showed slower rates of recovery and a greater amount of post operative problems than the group that didn't know that they were being prayed for and the control group. The inference is that it was the prayer that caused the negative effect and since I think that prayer is a placebo (and I think the study supports that), I called it a 'harmful placebo'.
Bolded: I don't think this is an accurate rendering of the results. Here's what the researchers actually suggested:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html
Quote:
[P]atients who knew that they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.
There's irony in MB's position because he's trying to claim both that there's not really an impact of prayer while simultaneously trying to point to negative impacts of prayer as evidence of his beliefs about prayer.
Underlined: This is definitely a misreading of the results. The article does not conclude anything about placebos, so claiming that the study supports a claim about placebos is more than a stretch.
If you want to read the actual report, the link is below. I recommend taking a look at the study design to understand the experimental set-up in its entirety and particularly the randomization process (and compare it with how prayer might "normally" happen -- or how it might be happening as a result of this thread).
https://www.bioestadistica.uma.es/ba...soryPrayer.pdf
Quote:
Randomization
Randomization assignments (serially numbered, opaque, sealed envelopes) were stratified by center using permuted blocks of size 9, 12, and 15 presented in random order. The envelope message for patients in groups 1 (uncertain, with intercessory prayer) and 2 (uncertain, no intercessory prayer) stated that they may or may not be prayed for. The message for patients in group 3 (certain, with intercessory prayer) stated that they will be prayed for. Study staff observed as each patient opened their randomization envelope, but the staff remained unaware of the contents. The enrollment form (patient’s first name, first initial of last name, study identification number, dates of randomization, and scheduled surgery) was then faxed to the coordinating center. Patients were instructed to refrain from notifying study personnel or hospital staff of their treatment assignment.
Last edited by Aaron W.; 11-30-2016 at 05:38 PM.