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If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone?

04-19-2011 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
I didn't change it.


"If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone?"

If a hypothetical God loves me why is he going to kill me in an apocalypse?

Why is that an invalid question? I want to know why God is going to kill me.
Most theist don't look at death as the end of existence but rather the end of a test.

So your question framed from a theists prespective is this: "Why does God want to end my test" which is really a silly question because a test is something that requires an end.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-19-2011 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLK
I do not understand.

If there is a God assuming typical theology, then your physical death is not an end for you. You have not actually been killed, just moved to another place.
Ah ok. Your going under eternal torment and not annihilationism.

Still if God loves me why is he going to "kill" me in an Armageddon and then torment me for eternity?

Yeah we could get nitty about the word kill because no one is killed (believers should fight for the elimination of the word form the dictionary).

I still want to know if God loves me why is he going to move me to a place of torment form the current life im living. If this is going to happen i would be concerned and i would have some questions i think would be valid. Like why if he loves me is he doing this.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-19-2011 , 01:59 PM
Um, because Yahweh was an angry war god?

"A history of God" for the curious:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#p/u/5/MlnnWbkMlbg
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-19-2011 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Ah ok. Your going under eternal torment and not annihilationism.

Still if God loves me why is he going to "kill" me in an Armageddon and then torment me for eternity?

Yeah we could get nitty about the word kill because no one is killed (believers should fight for the elimination of the word form the dictionary).

I still want to know if God loves me why is he going to move me to a place of torment form the current life im living. If this is going to happen i would be concerned and i would have some questions i think would be valid. Like why if he loves me is he doing this.
I think kill is still a useful word but we have to distinguish between physical death and the end of consciousness, at least within the assumption of the existence of God. I think it is more than nitty to be clear about the word though.

The second question about reconciling a loving God with eternal punishment is much better imo, and is considerably more difficult. To me, the classical Christian concept of Hell seems much more likely to have been created by an overly enthusiastic (fanatical?) believer trying to promulgate a religion than by a loving God. I am not at all a believer in that classical concept of Hell.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-19-2011 , 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLK
OK. Care to expand on the first no? I explained my reasoning for why the OP question was flawed. Where did I go wrong?
For one, not everybody gets to go with you. For two, some people still have stuff they want to do here.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-19-2011 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
Most theist don't look at death as the end of existence but rather the end of a test.
I made a post once about this world being some sort of divine test and got yelled at by a bunch of theists on this forum about how this is not what theists believe.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLK
I think kill is still a useful word but we have to distinguish between physical death and the end of consciousness, at least within the assumption of the existence of God. I think it is more than nitty to be clear about the word though.
It can mean both in Christainty. And just going by the title, kill implies annihilation. I know thats probably not what he meant . But the questions is essentially the same to me. Why if God loves me would kill or end my life on this earth. What i do?

Quote:
The second question about reconciling a loving God with eternal punishment is much better imo, and is considerably more difficult. To me, the classical Christian concept of Hell seems much more likely to have been created by an overly enthusiastic (fanatical?) believer trying to promulgate a religion than by a loving God. I am not at all a believer in that classical concept of Hell.
Yeah hell is harder. But killing me when i want to live still sucks in a way i would not be able to call the God doing it loving.

Last edited by batair; 04-20-2011 at 01:16 AM.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
Most theist don't look at death as the end of existence but rather the end of a test.

So your question framed from a theists prespective is this: "Why does God want to end my test" which is really a silly question because a test is something that requires an end.
I get it. And that view is pretty callous form an atheist perspective. At least when it comes to some theists doctrines. Some theists think my test will come to an end in the coming Armageddon and i will be killed or tormented eternally and they seem completely indifferent, or even joyful to that happening.

Sure, believers can ignore those of us doomed and say Gods loving even if he ended their or my test. But if i had foreknowledge of Yahweh ending my test, im not going to be thinking of him as loving me as he is tormenting or killing me. And really even if he did save me but kill and tormented others. I would still not see him as loving.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deorum
I made a post once about this world being some sort of divine test and got yelled at by a bunch of theists on this forum about how this is not what theists believe.
I believe you, but that is a little strange. Standard Christianity has the flavor of a test even if that term is not specifically used. For my part, that seems to be one possible scenario for our existence. I do not know how you would rule that out.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
It can mean both in Christainty. And just going by the title, kill implies annihilation. I know thats probably not what he meant . But the questions is essentially the same to me. Why if God loves me would kill or end my life on this earth. What i do?
I would never have thought this. I am not aware that the annihilation of the soul is part of Christian doctrine, at least not of mainstream denominations. I am Catholic and cannot ever recall encountering the concept in Catholicism. The apocalypse is characterized as physical death, not spiritual death in Catholicism also. I assumed that the OP was referring to the death of the body so if that is incorrect then my comments are off course.

Do you have a reference for the Christian concept of destruction of the soul?

Quote:
Yeah hell is harder. But killing me when i want to live still sucks in a way i would not be able to call the God doing it loving.
I would simply disagree. Your point of view is analogous to a young child thinking that a medical injection sucks in a way that could not be consistent with a loving parent. It is a matter of depth of understanding and perspective.

Not trying to be arrogant. My depth of understanding and perspective are equally restricted. Assuming the existence of God, that limitation is inherent to our current state.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deorum
For one, not everybody gets to go with you. For two, some people still have stuff they want to do here.
For point one, your objection is not to dying, it is to not going to a good outcome after death. That is a reasonable subject but it is not the OP. As I said in another post, I have some issues with the standard Christian concept of Hell and its consistency with a loving God.

On the second point, that is not very difficult to me. A loving God could take us from this world even though we were not ready to leave if that was in our best interests long term. I cannot begin to see how that causes you heartburn.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLK
I would never have thought this. I am not aware that the annihilation of the soul is part of Christian doctrine, at least not of mainstream denominations. I am Catholic and cannot ever recall encountering the concept in Catholicism. The apocalypse is characterized as physical death, not spiritual death in Catholicism also. I assumed that the OP was referring to the death of the body so if that is incorrect then my comments are off course.
No your comments are fair. I dont think the op meant annihilation.
Quote:
Do you have a reference for the Christian concept of destruction of the soul?
A bunch of theists in RGT believe in annihilation. They would be better suited to explain their reasoning. I dont think it holds much water when it comes to what the bible says.

Quote:
I would simply disagree. Your point of view is analogous to a young child thinking that a medical injection sucks in a way that could not be consistent with a loving parent. It is a matter of depth of understanding and perspective.

Not trying to be arrogant. My depth of understanding and perspective are equally restricted. Assuming the existence of God, that limitation is inherent to our current state.
I agree its a matter of understanding and perspective. God could have his reasons. But without that understanding and perspective, which i dont have. If Yahweh said he was going to kill me i would not see him as loving me as he was annihilating me.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLK
I agree, but does that not change the point from the OP? What you have stated is essentially: If God loves us why would He condemn us to eternal punishment rather than save us all?
God became man and died on the cross so guilty sinners (all of humanity) wouldnt have to go to hell. He gave us the out, but its our freewill that sends us to hell if we reject Him.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamunLUCKY
God became man and died on the cross so guilty sinners (all of humanity) wouldnt have to go to hell. He gave us the out, but its our freewill that sends us to hell if we reject Him.
So, "Follow me, and worship me, or else burn for eternity"???
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-20-2011 , 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel
So, "Follow me, and worship me, or else burn for eternity"???
You need a Savior for your sins. If we lived in a utopia and sin didnt exist, Jesus wouldnt have had to go to the cross and die.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-21-2011 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamunLUCKY
You need a Savior for your sins. If we lived in a utopia and sin didnt exist, Jesus wouldnt have had to go to the cross and die.
He could've just eaten an apple and had a much easier time imo. But Jesus hates apples, so..

Last edited by stu+stu; 04-21-2011 at 02:09 AM. Reason: god's gonna kill us all
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-22-2011 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel
So, "Follow me, and worship me, or else burn for eternity"???
Now your starting to get it
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 02:24 AM
catholic preists say that every person has their own doomsday the day they die, its not something that it gonna be at the same time for everyone, then again those priests probably got a boner when i walked up to them and asked for help so i would probably trust them more after they choke the chiken
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
It can mean both in Christainty. And just going by the title, kill implies annihilation. I know thats probably not what he meant . But the questions is essentially the same to me. Why if God loves me would kill or end my life on this earth. What i do?


Yeah hell is harder. But killing me when i want to live still sucks in a way i would not be able to call the God doing it loving.
If adam was made perfect and he died for lack of belief why would you be any different?
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman6969
If adam was made perfect and he died for lack of belief why would you be any different?
Right. God lovingly killing me makes no sense since my belief is out of my control.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Right. God lovingly killing me makes no sense since my belief is out of my control.
Take control then. All things are possible remember.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman6969
Take control then. All things are possible remember.
Take control and stop believing in an unloving God.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Take control and stop believing in an unloving God.
Done. Your turn is up bud.
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 01:58 PM
Yeah....
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote
04-25-2011 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Yeah....
See how simple god is?
If God loves us, why would he desire an apocalypse, killing everyone? Quote

      
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