I agree with all this and have always thought a lot of Christians are half nihilist in the way they look at the universe. Only they believe they have the cheese to get them out of the trap. And maybe for the more philosophically inclined like NotReady arent doing what im saying and are just engaging in that philosophic thought experiment that is a part of their metaphysics. But i do think for some it is used as a tool of conversion to take away contentment from non nihilist atheist and then offer that cheese. And NotReady id just like to say sorry if thats not what you are doing i was in a pissy mode last night.


Id also agree it inconsequential. Whats the universe expanding got to do with Brooklyn.

Why do you have little patience is it because you are unable to give an answer (or possibly don't care?) that life is all rather depressing? What evidence/proof can you show me to prove that my life is not depressing/meaningless?
It has nothing to do with Christianity, if anything at all it would be my disappointment in the human race.

Your life may be rather depressing. That doesn't mean everyone else is the same.

totally agree. which is why I'm asking questions to figure it out. I want to see whatever evidence/proof, statements etc...you got to make it not so and then try to apply it to my life.

There is no simple answer here that will solve your depression.

What makes my life a good and worthwhile one imo? Family, my partner, a good social circle of friends, a good social life, a decent job and lots of other small things that all add up to making life enjoyable

In before none of that brings him enjoyment.

just for the record i don't have depression. confirmed by two doctors. i dont have depression stamped and approved. although it has been hinted that I have a more accurate view of reality, that I may be less affected by positive illusions of superiority and the locus of control.

I just don't even have the words to be honest...

get a hobby. or a pet.

but I may also have avoidant personality disorder

I'm a bit tongue-in-cheek in my response there: I find Matt's world-weary genius pose amusing and so was responding to that.

As for answering your question, maybe misunderstand me. I haven't claimed that your life isn't depressing. I don't know you or anything about you. Maybe it is. Rather, what I've said is that your life isn't depressing because there is no intrinsic meaning to humanity.

In actuality my view is that it is very rare for existential angst to cause actual depression. Thus if you are actually depressed I would assume it has more to do with your circumstances or psychological problems than your philosophy of life.

My claim is that your disappointment results in part from your acceptance of background cultural attitudes that say that humans are supposed to be special and unique from the rest of the natural world. Christianity is just one manifestation of this assumption that has been more fully worked out.

Yes I think you got it. I think I see that now. I was so focused on philosophy that I ignored possible psychological problems due to the fact that the doctors have said there is nothing wrong with me.

Thanks.

Well you know, those doctors are probably only random bunches of atoms.

Hes right though. Your problems stem from your beliefs about what life "should" be like, and your beliefs about what it means for life to be meaningless. not from the plain fact that life is meaningless.

i see you are making fun of me. very good.

I totally agree I think he is on to something there and I must investigate it further.

Every thread you're involved in ends up the exact same way. You come in talking about how life is meaningless blah blah blah and when people try to interact with you concerning this you turn pissy. It seems like all you want is someone to agree with you that life is meaningless so who cares... which strikes me as pretty boring.

what? I was agreeing with advice, I'm being genuine. I was in no way being sarcastic. sorry if read that way, it was not my intention.

So, basically, what you two are saying is: the meaning of life has nothing to do with being human.

You'd be hard-proved to back that up historically.

Or should I rather say: the meaning of lobster has nothing to do with being human.

Not really, I'm poking fun at what you said earlier. Why refer to someone holistically as "doctor" if you believe they are just random collections of atoms?

Your reply did also sound somewhat smug, perhaps that was unintentional - but I find it unfair to be smug when (most) people are obviously tiptoing around you because you have hinted at some personal issues. It's a bit like gloating over beating someone in golf because you threw sand in their eyes.

If you speaking true and you are not being intentionally smug, then seeing as no doctor has stated you have a clinical depression or any of that nature - your best bet to resolve issues as those you described is more than likely to eat regularly, sleep regularly, be physically active and cut back on caffeine (if any) and sugar .

No thats not what im saying.

I cant speak for him and his stuff is way above my pay grade. But i dont think there is an intrinsic meaning to life.

Or i should say probably not. I dont know much about the universe others have seemed to figured out.

Just dont think it matters.

Join the club. However, this is something when it's not depressing the crap out of me, I find quite liberating. Life is always a question of perspective.

I know you've said you were being a bit tongue-in-cheek here, but the bolded is a not the same claim that I made. It may be true of some people, but my point is that all nihilists/anti-compatiblists etc are taking Christian metaphysics/metaethics as the 'correct' framework by which to evaluate morality/meaning/free will etc.

I'm assuming this is an attempt at humour, as there is no way a normal person could interpret my comment in such a way as you have done.

Well, I understand how (on the atheist view) life has no eternal metaphysical "meaning." I suppose, to an atheist, that phrasing itself is gibberish. Hardcore deterministic materialism doesn't allow much room for eternal, metaphysical consequence. I think it is very likely that the atheist is wrong, is all.

In order for life to be meaningless in this way, the atheist has to account for our mysterious cosmic context. If a materialistic view is currently without logical and scientific coherence, and is an incomplete picture, then you are just taking it on faith that life doesn't have intrinsic meaning.

In fact, it seems that in two different threads, the atheists are trying to play it both ways. Life has no intrinsic meaning. The meaning of lobster. But meanwhile, trying to convince someone that their metaphysically-located, existential hunger can be satisfied by the bread and water of the material world.

What is the correct framework?