think of the connection this way,

(Robert Spencer )SIOA<----->Frontpagemag<---->Jihad Watch(Robert Spencer)


This guy coolerboy has been spreading misrepresentation/misinformation and most recently providing links to hate websites and he doesn't care about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad_Watch.

Spencer has responded to accusations that Jihad Watch is Islamophobic by declaring the term "Islamophobe" a label, "a tool used by Islamic apologists to silence criticism."He says that his work is

"...dedicated to identifying the causes of jihad terrorism, which of course lead straight back into the Islamic texts. I have therefore called for reform of those texts... I have dedicated Jihad Watch to defending equality of rights and freedom of conscience for all people. That's Islamophobic? Then is the fault in the phobe, or in the Islam?"

Folks, does this remind you of anyone?

I understand, if presented on the same page as a link to a website construed to be a hate site all data collected by other sources becomes null and void.

[QUOTE=thekid345;41130394]
Spencer has responded to accusations that Jihad Watch is Islamophobic by declaring the term "Islamophobe" a label, "a tool used by Islamic apologists to silence criticism.


Ok the above statement I will concede is ridiculous. Personally I haven't seen anyone use that tactic in response to criticism.

Coolerboy,

This is seemingly another deflection by you. When one cites a neo nazi source, racial supremacist site source, etc usually their reputation significantly drops. You have recently(I'm not saying you previously did although again I fear this has been the case from your first response) committed the same action by listing an anti Islam hate organization as one of your sources.

You're right those who criticize islam are no different than those who emulate Hitler, a very valid and excellent point.

Coolerboy, I understand you may not necessarily apologize but it is my belief that you have been engaging in Islamophobia from the start. I also understand that you have posted a few pew polls in which I have responded with a gallup poll which was the "largest and most comprehensive of its kind" wrt polling Muslims around the world. I am still awaiting your response on this.

I welcome legitimate questions or concern about Islam and the Quran, I would appreciate that hate groups are not cited or a false shock treatment of Islam and its history is administered.

Finally, I will challenge coolerboy to find one instance where I cite a hate group in responding to posts itt discussing how we can prevent Islamophobia.

Those by your own words are not criticisms of Islam.

Since you welcome legitimate criticism, then address lemon on the apostasy issue, address dogg on the issue of many muslim majority countries being unsafe for christians to practice their religion and spread the gospel, address sharia law, address the concerns about muhammad sleeping with a 9 year old, address Muhammad keeping slaves, address Muhammad stealing, address Muhammad having prisoners beheaded, address Muhammad ordering torture, address lemon on the issue of slavery and islam, address the violent quran verses directly besides simply posting non violent verses. And actually address them directly instead of shamelessly shifting focus by bringing up other religions, insinuating that people who oppose you must belong to violent hate groups, labeling people as islamaphobic, trying to use scary words like neo-nazi and white supremacy as in comparison to the views of those who disagree with you, finding one or two links in posts with 20x that many links and disregarding every other study because you don't like the one links website operators.

You refused to address anyones concerns directly and by this point I don't think that anyone can take you seriously anymore (I sure as hell don't). If you could have shown evidence to deny most of these claims you would have, but you can't so you tried to shift focus elsewhere and it has become incredibly transparent.

If you directly address the concerns that I posted above and other people have posted you might be able to save face and no longer look like a guy who lost an argument and is now just swinging wild by trying to compare his detractors to nazis.

I stopped taking him seriously after just a few posts. He consistently avoids discussing many of the issues you have raised and just tries to change the subject. He did that with me and he has done it consistently with others.

There really isn't anything occurring in this thread that I would characterize as "Islamophobia" because a phobia is an unreasonable or irrational fear or concern. The issues raised in this thread are neither unreasonable nor irrational. They are politely stated valid concerns about violent and barbaric practices present in Islam that are embraced by a significant number (>10%) of Muslims.

If it were just a few percent of extremists, I would say kid has a point. But it isn't. Concepts like death or severe punishment for transgressions such as leaving Islam or insulting Islam are widespread.

I asked him about death for leaving Islam or five years in prison for setting a Koran on the ground and received no response. He had no problem asking me questions, but would not return the courtesy. As far as I am concerned, he has nothing to say.

Agreed. Early in this thread I directly addressed his arguments then realized that he wouldn't address mine and just resorted to trying to put negative labels on me, insult me, and most recently compare me to nazis. I got a little annoyed being called a nazi so I decided to post a serious response to him, in hindsight surely a waste of time. Probably a .00001% chance he will prove us wrong and post a legitimate response...I wouldn't bet on it though.

Coolerboy,

I mean this respectfully, I don't blame you for having legitimate concerns but I have obviously been offended by some of your specific posts. Mainly in the manner of your argument which I would deem as going beyond legitimate concerns. Btw I have only compared your analogy of Islam to that of Robert Spencer, I have only labeled you and doggg as Islamophobic. After all weather you like it or not coolerboy, you have listed a hate site as one of your sources.

As for what you wrote in the bold, it is both a complete joke and a fallacy, again I would only compare your argument style with the likes of Robert Spencer, neo nazi websites, racial supremacist websites. Considering all of the filth you specifically have been spewing itt and your style of doing so. Again if you go about your argument style in a polite manner I will respond to you.

BTW cooler, I will give you some credit for easing up a bit in your latest post as opposed to your previous posts itt , but I still feel your sense of Islamophobia.

As for Bibles and Christians in the "majority of the middle east" as doggg stated, as he said "pick one any one". So on the specific issue of bibles and Christians in the majority of Muslim nations, I have debunked doggg.

As for Sharia law, again I have listed secular Muslim majority counties itt, so I have debunked you on w/e theory it is you are trying to advance here. Do you think most Muslims want sharia law worldwide?

--As for your other listed concerns coolerboy , I would be happy to discuss them with you if you go about your argument in a respectable/polite manner considering the subject of the thread and how 1.6 billion people worldwide consider themselves Muslim.

You are offended by facts. I've posted facts that you have been "offended" by and you've responded by trying to label me as a bigot, islamaphobic, and comparing my views to nazis. I wouldn't expect anything different from you though.

I know better than to argue with fools and all that I'll apologize for is continuing to do that longer than I should have.

How about you stop complaining about that one link and instead address the other points made in this thread? Let's start with apostasy.

RLK, how do you expect a Muslim to react to this laughable claim, also why did you have to use "barbaric practices" ? If you want to get these crucial responses out of me then go about it in more respectable manner, i will gladly show you the same respect in return.

I mean what the.... do you mean (>0.01 )? at the bare minimum.

I will address this, I will also ask for my harshest critiques to address the factual instances in history where Muslims protected non Muslims, "based on their Islamic beliefs" as outlined by the Quran and the prophet M.

This is not to address the issue of apostasy in the Quran but,

Apostasy in Saudi Arabia = illegal (death penalty, although there have been no recently reported executions)

http://www.ctvnews.ca/


IMO S.A is the most conservative Islamic majority country.

straight from the Quran

Sura 4:90 "Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them"

So the interpretation here is extremely obvious IMO, even if you leave Islam... so long as you join those with a belief system of those of which wants peace with Islam, then you are good to go.


http://quran.com/4/90

This reverberations of this amazing, beautiful Sura practically crushes the misconception of the human fiqh in some Muslim majority countries of how Apostasy should be treated in the non after life. Beyond Sura 4:90 many modern day Islamic scholars argue that in fact the judgment for leaving Islam should be judged in the after-life.

Killing a person for leaving a religion is barbaric. That is why I had to use it.

I will be leaving this discussion now. I do not have one shred of respect for you, so it is hard to imagine that you could raise my opinion of Islam.

unsubscribed,

I'm falling asleep.

gl boys

LOL did you even read my last post?


Beyond Sura 4:90 many modern day Islamic scholars argue that in fact the judgment for leaving Islam should be judged in the after-life.

here we are, almost 250 replies into this thread and so far it has been an interesting debate to say the least. My thoughts so far are,


As for the recent poll on Islam and seeing that this is a poker forum, I view the results as a victory. Almost 10% of those polled strongly agree/agree that Islam is a religion of peace. Around 35% and growing of those polled, give or take a few points do not strongly disagree or disagree that Islam is a religion of peace. That being said I'm interested in continuing this unique conversation with those who feel Islam is not a peaceful religion.


I'm looking forward to answering more of these reasonable concerns.

Well I'm sure they're paid hansomely for theorizing about some unkowable tripe about the after-life

Deflection...

I would disagree on that, I provided a response wrt Apostasy in Islam in post 242.

Also, I have/can provide further proof of factual instances in history where Muslims protected non Muslims, "based on their Islamic beliefs" as outlined by the Quran and the prophet M.

That being said I am willing to address your reasonable concerns Husker.

As a side note, this post will be in appreciation of Brunei and His majesty the Sultan, whom the people of Brunei deeply respect, kind of like Queen Elizabeth of England. I hope this post will also serve as example of how things can/do workout for the better in Muslim majority countries to those whom have misconceived views of Muslims around the world.

So when many folks think of Brunei , which is an Islamic majority country they probably are not aware of what goes on in the country, they may even have never heard of Brunei. In fact in Brunei their are rock concerts. That's right coolerboy, in this video Whitney Houston put on a legendary show in Brunei where the Muslim audience got involved. Here is a case of an Islamic majority country. In fact toward the end of the video, Whiteny had a dance with the Prince himself, your thoughts on this Coolerboy?

Brunei is a Muslim majority country with a prosperous economy and a strong middle class, it is believed their is no homelessness in Brunei




just an incredible concert in a Muslim majority country.