Couldn't God get around the problem of statistical detection by also helping non-prayers? So if he wants to cure the cancer of somebody who is praying for it, he will also cure the cancer of one person who wasn't praying for it. This would mean prayer is even more effective than Christians claim.

I think that prayer could maybe act as a catalyst for emotional catharsis. Speaking aloud or silently in one's head in a directed manner might more fully bring to consciousness and clarify the grief that one feels in the midst of some or other tragedy. It could also provide an avenue for a person to humble himself by acknowledging that a trying situation is beyond his control.

To clarify my stance though, I don't think that such benefits would have anything to do with a personified God granting favorable conditions to anyone by means of his personal volition.

Lectio Divina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectio_Divina

Christian Contemplation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemplative_prayer

Stu, if prayer efficacy science experiements are inevitably flawed, and one has to determine whether prayers works only through faith, what is it, then, that makes God more likely than the Spaghetti Monster? And doesn't David's euphemistic "convenient" bother you? Spaghetti Monster worshippers don't have websites asking for donations.

Prayer works cos you are talking to god!
When He hears ur prayers He answers them. Pretty simple...

Seriously, one way that petitional prayer was explained to me was that God does not grant requests that would in some way harm us or harm others in some way. If we don't get specifically what you ask for their is a supposed good reason for it. There is some scripture that supports that idea. As the old Rolling Stones song goes "You get what we need not what we want."

Great discussion....mainly on theory. How about some specific personal results of a prayer being answered?

There aren't any FSM worshippers.....just people who use FSM to ridicule religion.

The point I was making is scientific study of the efficacy of prayer is fundamentally flawed in that it cannot control or isolate the primary variable. Therefore is not trustworthy enough to draw reliable conclusions.

What if the guy at the bus stop has a secret desire to be stalked...and is praying for his own personal stalker?

I would put myself in the same category you put Not Ready. I don't think God interferes all that much .

Then why am I suffering for Adam's curiositiy?

Got pretty stoned one night and put my foot through my acoustic guitar when I accidentally stepped on it. Guitar has always been a therapeutic hobby for me and it was a bit upsetting. I asked God to help me to get a new one. I knew he would. Some time after that maybe a month or so my dad asked me about my guitar and I told him what happened. He offered me $250 to go buy a new one. I did.

Then there was the time I prayed that my daughter would get a good night sleep because I was going to be seeing her the next day and I wanted her to be on her best behavior. She didn't always sleep the best when she was real young. A tired kid is a nightmare. When her mom dropped her off the next day she said, "Riley slept right through the night last night." Instantly my mind flashed to me praying for it.

I have tons more.

This one time I really did not want to go and meet my friends, I saw there was big rain clouds in the sky, I had to leave at 3pm and it was just about 2.30, i prayed really hard to god to make it rain, and by 2.50 it was raining i was like OMGGGG thank you god! so i called my friends and said sorry cant come its raining.

Praise the LORD!!!!!

I think i will pray to god tonight and ask him to let hundreds of children die of starvation.

I'll report back in a few days and let you know how it pans out.

I'm flabbergasted that you think your daughter slept thru the night because you prayed for it, yet millions of people who have prayed for life and death situations did not have their prayers answered.

How do to explain this?

God works in mysterious ways?
They didn't pray correctly?

Some people in this thread deserve a gold medal in mental gymnastics.

Try praying to God and see if He will give you an answer.

It seems that prayer and birthday wishes have a lot in common.

Either there is no god or there is no need for a god since he doesnt interfer.

If God interfered just one time a month...you wouldn't be able to detect it....His action would get lost in the flood of happenstance. If He interfered once a day you wouldn't be able to detect it. And if He intefered once a second....I doubt you'd be able to detect it. He could grant a prayer for Big Erf's guitar in one second, that my father die a quick and peaceful death or recover in the next(he recovered btw), that the woman who desperately wants to concieve a child....concieves in the next...or Patton's request for good weather....so on and so forth. The set of those things prayed for is so large that he could go quite a while without ever having to grant the same request twice.

But consider what the world would be like if people were certain God existed. Suppose each and every one of JFK prayers were answer and he was 100% certain of God's existence. Would he have negotiated a solution to the Cuban missle crisis or just told those atheist Russian's that God was on his side and he would rather go to war than give up our nuclear tip missles in Turkey? God has a vested reason for keeping his distance. If He was too close people would depend on Him more than they need or He wants them too. So when Sklansky insinuates that it is unfair for God to deny the bus stop guys prayer's because he unknowingly became part of a science experiment....I don't buy it.

Come on David....whats the point of learning The Theory of Poker when you just can say a prayer and have your flush made on the river? God has to show a certain amount of restraint in the prayers He answers and just below the lever of detectibility seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I dont think God interfers at ALL. I dont think God cares if we worship
him or not. I dont think God answers any prayers. God doesnt see us as special.

So no need for God. And there is no fire in hell so its all good.

The point I made in the other thread about people
who do pray and find those prayers dont get answered
doesnt bring comfort.......it brings despair. Like I said
I know people who where devoted Christians prayed for loved ones
with cancer and they died. These people turned to drink/drugs for comfort
because god didn't.

That's real Stu!

ok. you are either a troll or you borderline ******ed.

How do you convince someone to pray? If it can't be tested
and you think God doest interfer much? What reason would you give to someone
that they should pray?

Stu: No way of testing that prayer works
Stu: God doesn't interfere much
Stu: but you give prayer a chance because its a free roll