Two Questions regarding the immaculate conception.

1. Was an egg of Mary's fertilized? With what? Did it contain DNA? If there was no fertilized egg, what part of Jesus was from Mary?

2. How old was Mary? Did she give permission for God to impregnate her? If not, how is this not rape?

Mary was notified and consented see Luke 1:38.

Obviously the texts related to the birth of Jesus don't mention DNA or any part of the biology of the situation. Do you really expect someone to pretend to know the answer to this?

Besides, the question is irrelevant.

It's simple. Do you believe it's possible a Jewish sky God miraculously knocked up a teen girl?

If the answer is no, then there's no answer that would satisfy to begin with.

If the answer is yes, then, well, we're talking about the miraculous powers of a deity who shaped the universe and is omnipotent. So at that point, the answer is, "It's a miracle, obviously."

(Seriously, if God is real and he is timeless and created the whole universe, you think plucking a Y chromosome out of his magic hat is really an issue?)

LOL for an Atheist like me this is so funny it almost made me cry. God raping Mary now that's something to think about.

Well Roland, If you care to take the time to read this post attentively, closely, and with an open unbiased outlook you will find your answer. It is a bit long but with such a "supposed hard question" would you expect it to be answered with one or two words?


Jesus Christ was born on September 11, 3BC. Nine months earlier in 4BC the real December story occurred as his mother Mary was visited by the archangel Gabriel.

Luke 1:26
And in the sixth month [of Elisabeth's pregnancy- see verse 36] the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Gabriel is one of three archangels noted in God's Word. Gabriel is sent by God when a very important message is to be delivered. He had recently (six months earlier) visited Mary's cousin Elisabeth with a message that she would have a baby. Elisabeth was "well stricken in age" while Mary was a young teenage girl. Elisabeth was now six months pregnant and Gabriel was sent with another very important message from God to her cousin Mary.

Luke 1:27
To a virgin espoused [betrothed] to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

The Greek word translated virgin is the word parthenos. Parthenos is a word used for a young woman. In Biblical culture a young woman would not have sexual relations until after the wedding ceremony at a time set by the priest. However, the word parthenos is not used exclusively of a woman who had not had intercourse as the the word virgin is used today. There are Biblical examples of women being called parthenos who have had children before and therefore the word parthenos should be understood simply as a young woman. We know from the rest of the context that Mary was a virgin by today's standards and that she had not had sexual intercourse.

Mary was espoused or betrothed to a man named Joseph. Betrothal in Biblical culture was the second step in a five-step, involved marriage arrangement:

Prearrangement - Years before the marriage women in the groom's family would choose a young girl and arrange for a future marriage.

Betrothal - A formal ceremony held about one year before the actual wedding. The groom's family arranged a dowry and a jewel called the "10 pieces of silver" was given by the groom to his future bride. This was a formal and legal commitment between the man and woman and required a legal divorce to dissolve it.

Wedding - At the wedding ceremony the priest would set a time for the couple to come together for sexual intercourse and living together - usually within a week or so after the ceremony.

Coming Together - The couple begins living together and the man "takes his wife unto him" and sexual intercourse becomes part of their life.

Honeymoon - The first year of marriage the couple lives alternately with the groom's family, the bride's family, the groom's, etc. During this year, they have no visitors but are to "get to know each other." At the end of the year, the groom builds an apartment on his family's home for them.

Luke 1:28
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Mary was highly favoured or graciously accepted by God. She was blessed. She was not and is not "the Blessed Virgin" or "the Mother of God" or any of the other titles that exalt her position above the simple wonderful truth that this was a young woman who loved God and believed His Word to end that she was able to be the mother of Jesus Christ.

Luke 1:29
And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

You must remember that angels do not appear to men as "flying women singing Christmas songs." Angels are messengers. They usually appear as any other man. There is no record in God's Word of an angel with wings or of a female angel. Nor is there a record of an angel singing his message.

This greeting was troubling to Mary just as it would be if a stranger came up to you and said: "Hello, God has great things in store for you. God is with you and you are very blessed."

Luke 1:30
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Gabriel reassured Mary with "Fear not, Mary" and for the second time told her that she had God's favour [grace]. Grace is God's unmerited favour. Mary was not favoured of God because of something she had done. Grace is pure giving from God to man. You don't earn it. God just gives it. Now that Gabriel has Mary's attention . . . here comes the message:

Luke 1:31-33
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

I wonder if Mary even heard past the first sentence. You are going to have a son. Mary was betrothed but not yet married. She was a virgin [by today's definition]. How was she going to have a baby? And not just any baby. This was the Christ promised since Genesis 3:15 and looked for by Israel throughout the old testament. The amount of information provided by the angel was amazing! Mary knew she was going to have a baby. She knew before she got pregnant it would be a boy. She did not have to think about what to call him. She knew he would grow up. She knew he would be a great man. She knew he would be the promised Christ! WOW.

Luke 1:34
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Here the Word of God confirms that Mary was a virgin by today's definition. She was a young betrothed woman who had not yet gone through the wedding ceremony nor had she had sexual intercourse with a man. How could she have a baby?

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost [THE HOLY SPIRIT - God] shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow [cover] thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

God designed the human body and procreation in the beginning with Adam and Eve. God does not overstep His own design. The only way for Mary to have a baby was for a sperm to fertilize an egg in Mary's womb. God was going to provide the male seed and Mary was going to supply the egg. God would be the father, therefore Jesus would be the son of God. God is a spirit. God was not going to have intercourse with Mary. God was going to CREATE a sperm in Mary's womb.

Gabriel provided one more piece of information so that Mary could accept God's Word and believe:

Luke 1:36-37
And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Verse 37 - "nothing shall be impossible" are the Greek words:

ouk=not
pan rhema=anything spoken
adunatesei=impossible - without strength - void of power

No word of God spoken by Gabriel was impossible. To believe you must have information. Believing is having confidence and trust in information received to the end you act upon it.

Gabriel had delivered a lot of information: The grace of God. Mary was going to have a baby boy. She was to name him Jesus. He was going to be the Christ. God was going to plant the seed. God had worked a miracle for her cousin Elisabeth. The word of God is POWERFUL! God gave Mary enough information that she could have confidence and trust in the word and believe it. Now look at the believing of Mary:

Luke 1:38
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Be it unto me according to thy word!!! That is believing. You get information - What does God's word say? And then you act. Mary got the information and responded "Lets do it!" And that is not all she said. She responded "Behold the handmaid of the Lord."

The Greek word for handmaid is the word doule. Doule is the feminine form of the Greek word doulos. A doulos or doule was a bonded/branded servant. In Bible lands and times there were two kinds of servants. One servant was simply an employee. A doulos was considered part of the family. A doulos servant was a servant who had served a family for many years and been offered his/her freedom. When offered freedom, this servant responded with: "No, I do not want to go free. I love my master and I want to continue to serve the family forever." The master then put a brand on that servant's ear and treated him/her as a trusted member of his family. The master provided for all the doulos' needs and the doulos served faithfully as a trusted member of the master's family.

Mary's response was the response of the doule. I will serve you God as a trusted branded servant in your family. Be it unto me according to thy word!

Pletho

But it isnt irrelevant. It goes to the point that even the most famous of all miracles treads directly on Science. Whether or not God used DNA (and what that code consists of) to impregnate Mary is a scientific question.

When science fits with God's word then science is correct when it does not then it is proven wrong time and time again.

God created ALL THINGS. All God would need to do is create 1 single sperm with perfect genetic makeup. Then place it in mary's egg. Simple as that.

Then you would have Jesus Christ the only begotton son of God. Born of a woman and Fathered by God. No Man could have procduced a perfect genetically madeup sperm. So God did it.

This sounds pretty ludacris from a five senses point of view I agree, and so do many of the miracles in the bible. They baffle the five senses man's mind, which they are supposed to do.

Nevertheless it still happened. We could actually argue how many angels can fit on the head of a needle if you would like? That would proabably get us no where though. Just like the majority of hypocritical questions being asked by unbelievers about God and His Word in which they do not believe.

If you do not believe in it or in Him them why are you so concerned about others and their beliefs? It seems as though you are wasting your time.

Christians are directed to witness and share the truth with others. Is there some handbook written somewhere that directs unbelievers and tells them they are to question God's word? Or Christians about things that they themselves really do not believe in?

Meaning we are supposed to talk with others, that is HOW others learn and begin to believe.

Unbelievers have no real reason to do what they do to Christians as far as I know except that they are under the influence of something that is antagonistic towards anything GOD or truth related. Which means that they at times are not rowing their own boat and are inspired to question and destroy anything that is of or from or about God.

Or they just like wasting there time on things that they supposedly do not believe in. Hmmm?

Pletho

Or they believe that religion is dangerous...

Pletho,

as insane as i think you are, i might actually take the time to read your posts if you kept them under 19 paragraphs for once in your life

Sorry, Many words are needed to explain things at times. Many subjects can't be explained in 19 paragraphs. Maybe I will break them up into small post 1 right after another? I don't think that would help though.

I find that 1 liners are good for arguing and debating but hoestly that is not why I post. I post because I believe that what I am posting will shed light on the subject at hand. And if my posts are not read then many people really miss out things that would maybe help them to understand.

But I can't sacrifice the words needed at times to appease people who aren't really interested enough to read a post that may take a few extra minutes of their time.

If I really wanted to know truth or understand something better I would do whatever it takesto get or find the answer, many on here seem not that interested in answers.

Many just want to one and two line each other to death with bickering and defending their beliefs or unbeliefs or attacking others.


Pletho

Lol now you're accusing atheists that post here of being under demonic possession? I mean we disagree with you so it must be the devil!

Whose colour eyes did Mary have?
a) Mary's
b) God's
c) Roman soldier

I think he means it in this sense that Peck writes about in his book People of the Lie.

excerpt:

"God created us in his own image. He gave us free will. Like Himself, we are free to choose.....
On the otherhand we cannot choose freedom. There are two states of being: submission to God and goodness or the refusal to submit to anything beyond one's own will - which refusal automatically enslaves ones to the forces of evil. We must ultimately belong either to God or the devil. This paradox, of course, was expressed by Christ when he said, "Whosoever will save his life shall lose it. And whosoever will lose his life, for my sake, will find it. As C.S. Lewis put it "There is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second is claimed by God and counterclaimed by Satan." I suppose the only true state of freedom is to stand exactly half way between God and the devil, uncommitted to either goodness or utter selfishness. But that freedom is to be torn apart. It is intolerable. As Martin (former Jesuit Priest Malachi Martin) indicates, we must choose. One enslavement or the other." end of excerpt

Your forgetting that Jesus is a halfman/half God. If God just willy nilly made up a genetic code to fertilized Mary's egg than he is halfman/half-synthetic-life-form

Pletho, once again I just want to say

One of the mods need to check that mans internet connection to make sure it even exists.

what are you suggesting?

That God might be typing on His laptop up in heaven and participating in RGT under the username "Pletho".

I seriously starting to wonder if the only reason you are not in a cult haplessly following some shmuck somewhere is sheer dumb luck.

I have to admit this made me LOL.

No Erf follows the real God.

Probably why there are so many cults. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and the refuge of most wannabes.

Depends on who the "real" god is. Apparently "he" may be typing away on internet message boards, better ask what he wants you to do.

Lol.

Well God works through people. He probably is working on message boards somewhere through someone all the time.

There ARE plenty of Christian forums.

The battle is always for the mind and the people that protect their's the least are the most vulnerable. It doesn't really matter if you're a theist or not. You have to study God's Word regularly to rightly divide truth and you always need spiritual armor.

There's a funny thing about the Armor of God. It doesn't have any protection on the backside only on the front. So God clearly doesn't expect us to run when we confront evil. We have to cut evil to shreds with the sword of truth and stand in fearless confidence that we possess the truth.

fixed imo

So you cut "evil" into shreds with "truth". So I am assuming "evil" is the opposite or atleast the enemy of "truth". Yet you have no basis to claim knowledge of the "truth". Yet, those who disagree with your version of "truth" are "evil", eventhough due to the lack of reliability of your "truth", you could be the "evil" being cut by the "truth".


I hope you realize how even seemingly benign faith based beliefs, when taken out to their logical conclusion are "truly" terrifying.

Everyone is evil including practicing Christians. The bible specifically states if you have comitted one sin then you are guilty of all sins. Everyone has committed one sin so everyone's guilty.

Its just some people are deceived about the nature of things and some aren't.

We use the sword of truth to cut away the evil lies and illusions that trap people. If you never confront a lie with the truth then how can you expose a lie?