i have been pretty strongly convinced that almost no one in philosophy, especially in theological branches, has any idea what the word infinity means.

Nobody can usurp God's will if he's truly decided something. We really don't know how much free rein he allows us. But I imagine there's quite a bit of diversity just as there is in nature. How many species have morphed into something else? Did God interfere or just provide the generative process? He did grant us power over it however.

Why do you keep floating this depressing stuff my way? I bet you're a real hit at parties.

O Rly? So now you're comparing all Christians to the schizophrenic Andrea Yates who's hubby kept knocking her up in spite of the fact he knew she was emotionally and mentally challenged.

Maybe because you have a selective memory that only includes rainbows and sunshine and forgets to take into consideration anything that doesn't make you feel good inside regardless of its prevalence?

Is your bible thumping and Jesus freaking a hit at parties?

You should really give some thought to the impression you're making on the 2 plus 2 community.

The impression that I force people to recognize ALL of reality instead of only the parts that make them smile?

Nevermind. These boring inanities is why there's an ignore option.

No really, what is the impression I am giving you that I should be changing? Explain.

You're acting like you have some kind of a grudge against that poster.

Sigh. You're totally missing the point. This is not about what Christians believe is moral, or what the bible directly says they should do. It's about the logical conclusion one should draw from the tennents of Christianity. I freely admit that this coclusion is inconsistent with other tennents, which only speaks to the inherent incoherence of standard Christian theology.

As for Yates, I would argue that she needed to be unbalanced to follow the logic of her faith to such an awful conclusion without letting her basic humanity stop her. Thankfully, most Christians are not as disconnected from reality as their faith is.

Some here also appear to be under the impression that if I say something is noble then it implies the Christian god would aprove. I'm saying that IF Christianity is true then I would judge such a sacrifice to be noble in the extreme.

But then I also believe that my sense of morality is superior to the god of Christianity's.

Is the OT out of this or not? Your first question asks for any verses in the Bible but later on in your post you restrict these commands to the NT...

Do the Christians in this thread agree that babies who die before they have a chance to grow up, automatically go to heaven? Or do they simply avoid going to hell (for example maybe they don't get any kind of an afterlife)? Not a Christian myself, but that would be the first question on this subject to get sorted out.

If slaughtered babies do go to heaven, it seems clear that the baby killer is doing the baby a great favor. If you could go to heaven immediately, why would you want to waste your time in this life? Even if you have a really nice life, it can't compare with heaven.

The OT is not out of this. But remember that God must command Christians to kill babies.

But I don't think the point of this thread is that God commands Christians to kill babies. Just that if you do kill babies, it's a really nice thing to do for the baby. Though you might be condemning yourself to hell by doing this wonderful thing.

Ok, let's try this one step at a time.

1) According to standard Christian teachings, are Andrea Yates' kids in heaven?

2) According to standard Christian teachings, are we all at risk of going to hell if we stray from what god wants us to do?

3) if the answers are both "yes", and we assume Christianity is true, is it fair to say that the Yates kids are better off in heaven than here on earth?

If your answer to any of these questions is "no", please explain.

I'll also add that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what the OP means by "should". Christians here are assuming that "should" implies divine favour, but the OP is not trying to say this. The OP means it in the sense that if you love your children then you should put their well-being over your own.

Lulz.. BC believers in Yahweh and AD believers such as yourself do not worship the same God?

Ideally I don't think Christians should be doing the baby killing though, since the baby killer likely goes to hell. On the other hand if a non-Christian happens to kill babies, they were already going to hell anyway, so there's no downside. And it's an especially favorable outcome when the babies of non-believers are killed, since those babies are at maximum risk of not accepting Christianity later in life.

In summary, here's a list of baby killing scenarios ordered from least favorable to most favorable:

1. A Christian kills his own child. He guarantees the child's salvation and damns himself. There was a decent chance the child would have grown up to be a Christian anyway.

2a. A Christian kills the child of a non-believer. Better than scenario 1 because the child probably wouldn't have become a Christian if allowed to mature - a high risk soul was saved here.

2b. A non-Christian kills the child of a Christian. A little better than scenario 1 because the killer was already damned in the first place.

3. A non-Christian kills his own child. Best scenario of all, better than 2a because the killer was already damned, better than 2b because the baby was at high risk of never becoming a Christian.

No, it's because the title of this thread is "Fundamantal Christians should slaughter babies."

The Bible is a very long book, and if we assume that the argument the OP makes is true, then it would be surprising outcome if there isn't a single verse in the Bible which commands Christians to kill babies.

I don't think you can make an argument against the idea OP is suggesting. Clearly more souls will end up in heaven if we killed every baby compared to if we did not.

Just because the Bible doesn't tell us to kill babies doesn't mean more souls wouldn't go to heaven if we did.

If Christians followed this reasoning hundreds of years ago and as a result were successful in killing every baby, heaven would have fewer souls than it would have today. So your statement that "Clearly more souls will end up in heaven if we killed every baby compared to if we did not" is probably false.

The problem with these arguments is they assume that getting the most souls or the highest percentage of souls into heaven should be the most important goal. But for the Christian that's really not true. For a Christian, worshipping God is more important.

Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. One of the ten commandments is "You shall not murder." If someone risks their own soul so they could slaughter babies and send those babies to heaven, that person is going against all three of these commandments.

In short, a Christian should worship God. Someone who kills innocent babies is not worshipping God. Someone who gives up their own soul is not worshipping God (and in my opinion, someone who knowingly risks their own soul so that babies can go to heaven is not a Christian). It makes no sense for someone to honestly make these two statements: "I'm a Christian." I'm going to hell."

Yes it appears I overlooked this a bit. I'll rephrase to suggest killing your first born, but letting the rest grow up and risk going to hell. (I'm not really suggesting this of course)

It wasn't an argument from me, just my opinion.

I agree with you that OP's idea contradicts other beliefs within the religion,b ut contradiction is nothing new to Christianity.

I'm not taking any sides here... just pointing out that if we didn't do anything without first seeing if a bible verse tells us to do that thing, we wouldn't be able to do many things we enjoy.

Do you think that is the most important goal for God?

And short of killing babies it seems getting the highest percentage of souls into heaven should be at worst number two on the priority list Christians. Where would you rank it personally?

Yes. When I say 'worship God,' that's like a short way of saying the first commandment that Jesus gave (love God with all your soul, heart, etc.)

I would rank the second commandment given by Jesus as number two. People who love their neighbors as they love themselves will greatly value other souls getting into heaven. So you could say that this fits in with number two on my priority list.