Please keep in mind that communities have always thrived around sources of water (for obvious reasons). When communities survival is effected by (and often dependent upon) water - then their mythologies are naturally going to reflect that. Any civilization growing up along rivers, for instance, are likely to have had problems with floods. Would it be surprising for cultures around the world growing up along rivers to have stories of great floods?

And there is no record of a great flood covering the earth. There are records of great floods in valleys of the Nile.

I wasn't referring to how the Bible is misused. What I'm referring to is the stories within the Bible share thematic similarities to many other religions that predate it: Creation mythologies, the great flood, the death and resurrection of a God, the great sacrifice, etc. Comparitive mythology shows that many of these stories/themes appear in earlier religions.

I'm afraid I don't follow.

We do need so much more of this...humility of knowledge, I'll call it.

I think the rapture is a nice idea but I find the evidence to be rather ambiguous. In any case, prepare for the worse and hope for the best. I'm more inclined towards Newton, in any case.

Yes, that's probably the only way: prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I was inclined towards Newton myself until recently I shifted slightly towards Darby and now I'm undecided. An on the surface reading of the bible seems to be more Newtonian but some prophecy experts claim that the Rapture is "outlined" in the Wedding at Cana parable.

Something to look at: http://www.rapturesolution.com/beech...ok/Wedding.htm

Its always possible we'll have both the Newtonian and the Darbyian scenarios. There's nothing that says there won't be a splitting of the faithful into 2 groups "raptured at different times". Also on the surface the Newtonian scenario seems bound to happen because a lot of people will be evangelized and saved in the Great Tribulation. (Of course this is speculative of me to say).

There's a book called "Red Moon Rising" that has an interesting thesis and that is that the Hitler was the first seal, WWII the second....and it argues for a rapture prior to the really big stuff. I haven't read it, but I plan to take a look at it.

That would be an interesting read but there are so many theories out there.

Here are a couple of interesting sites:
http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrv...mentaries.html

http://www.theshininglight.info/

I particularly like their monthly newspages trying to keep up to date with Israel as the "time piece of God".

http://www.theshininglight.info/id82.html

Last month they had Syrian troops massing on the Lebanese border but I don't think anything happened. Of course, it'd be like crossing a very small state to go from Syria thru Lebanon into Israel.

Btw, I noticed that there was a stir over JFK's assassination. People thought he might be the AC and come back to life. Pretty strange.

No, it's not speculative...remember this:

It is very clear cut that there will be a whole lot of people saved. This is one of the most hopeful passages in all of prophecy to me. And, they come from every nation, tribe, people, and language.

Yes that IS a very hopeful passage.

There are many hidden nuggets in the bible you just have to read it with a fine tooth comb. You almost have to pause as you go along.

There are some very surprising things in that book that I think the average person overlooks and that ministers never think to bring up in church services.

Speaking more about foreshadowing Mempho the birth of Benjamin in Genesis seems to be a foreshadowing of the Messiah.

When he was born Rachel died but before dying she wished to name him Benoni which means son of my pain. But Jacob changed his name to Benjamin which means son of my right hand indicating power and virtue.

This seems to indicate the dual nature of Jesus. The suffering and conquering nature of Jesus as well as his first coming and his future second coming.

Benjamin was the favorite brother of Joseph. Both were Jacob's sons by Rachel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin

Another interesting thing is that while there were 12 tribes in Israel one of the tribes could be split into 2 actually totaling 13 tribes.

You have to wonder if this in anyway signifies the U.S. with the 13 colonies.

Now if you take the whole list including Joseph, Manasseh and Ephraim and all the other tribes then the number is 14. 14 is the number signifying redemption or salvation.

See the 12 tribes list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_tribes_of_Israel

Oh I should have mentioned when you bring all the tribes together its like you just reunited the Jews (Kingdom of Judah) with the Gentiles (Kingdom of Israel).

Its interesting to note that outside of Israel the largest Jewish population in the world resides in the United States.

Interesting article showing a biblical/geological perspective on earthquakes that contradicts some of the current prophecy scholars.

http://ldolphin.org/quakes2.html

Very interesting a prophecy expert who perceived the mark of the beast the same way I did in an earlier post:

The Mark of the Beast:

If the “beast” system is none other than Babylon the Great, then it begs the question of “What is the mark of the Beast?” Since it involves “buying and selling” (Rev. 13: 16-18), it clearly involves financial activity. While this article will not offer an authoritative answer to that question, it will try to motivate you to “think outside the box” about what it could be. Most Christian denominations often assume this “mark” will be some computer-read device which is implanted in your hand or forehead. Some people once thought it was bar-coded commercial products. Maybe such concepts will prove correct, but there are other alternatives.



Christians would be wise to heed an often-missed, but sober warning in the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25. Christians commonly understand that the virgins are God’s people at the end of the age, that the bridegroom who is about to return is Jesus Christ, and that the oil is symbolic of the spiritual condition of the saints. What is often overlooked is that NONE of them, regardless of their spiritual condition, realized that the return of the bridegroom was imminent. None of the “virgins” realized that the bridegroom’s return was almost upon them until it was too late to change the nature of their spiritual condition. This parable warns us that the community of believers will NOT be expecting Christ’s return when he arrives. How could this happen? It can happen because the believers misunderstand prophecy. This parable infers that as many prophecies are fulfilled in the world around them, believers will not recognize these fulfillments. They will be blinded by their own prophetic dogmas. Because they are awaiting and looking for events which will never happen, they are unable to see God’s prophecies being fulfilled in a manner they did not expect. That message in this parable should make all of us humble enough to reexamine our prophetic dogmas and expectations.



Let’s apply this lesson to the “mark of the beast.” It clearly involves commerce as no one can “buy and sell” without this mark. However, the economic/political aspect of Babylon the Great will be joined to the religious aspect of Babylon the Great as a great religious deceiver will align himself with Babylon the Great and “do miracles” (Rev. 13:11-14). The Bible calls these two political and religious leaders the beast and the false prophet. Eventually, this evil system will try to kill all of God’s people (Rev. 13:15). However, when will that extreme position occur? Will it occur during the entire three and half years of the beast’s final reign (Rev. 13:5), or will it occur only at the climax of this period after the protective power of the Two Witnesses ends when they are slain by this beast power (Rev. 11:7-9)? The Bible prophesies the Two Witnesses’ power will exceed that of the beast and the false prophet for three and half years (Rev. 11: 3-6), so it is logical that the final, murderous fury of the beast power can only be released only after the Two Witnesses are slain. If this murderous rage of the beast power is unleashed only in the last three and half days of this age (Rev. 11:11) when the Two Witnesses are deceased, it makes sense that Christians would then realize the return of the “bridegroom” is imminent, but it will be too late to make any significant changes to one’s character.



Christians also have literally applied the language in Revelation 13:16-17 about the “mark of the beast” even as they allegorically apply the language in Revelation 9 about the weaponry of the end times as being a representation of tanks, helicopters, and planes. Should we be consistent in our approach? What if there is also an allegorical component to the economic language of Revelation 13:16-17? Could “no man might buy or sell” simple mean that no one “will have access to money” or “participate in the marketplace” except through the lending systems of Babylon the Great? If so, that situation is almost a reality now.



Is the “Mark” Visible?

Let’s consider another possibility about this mysterious “mark.” Did you realize God also has a “mark” on his people? Ezekiel 9 addresses a time when the sins of the house of Israel and the house of Judah are very great (verse 9). It cannot reference the fall of the kingdom of Israel in 721 BC because Ezekiel wrote this prophecy approximately 130 years after Samaria fell; therefore, it was intended for a future time. It reveals that when God sends punishments upon the house of Israel (something prophesied to occur in the latter days in many prophecies), he first places a “mark” upon the “foreheads” of all those who “sigh and cry” at the abominations done in the land. God’s mark is placed (and seen) by beings personified as “men” who are in the presence of God, a “cherub” and God’s altar. These “men” have to be angels with the appearance of men and one of them with a “writer’s inkhorn” is told to make sure this mark is on the heads of the righteous so that they will be spared when God’s destructions are poured out on the land.



There is no evidence in Ezekiel 9 that humans will be able to see God’s “mark” on the foreheads of the righteous. Perhaps God’s “mark” is the presence of the Holy Spirit in their minds (the forehead being the seat of consciousness). Only the angels administering God’s punishments need to see this “mark” of God on the foreheads of the righteous in order to know who to spare. This “marking” of God’s people in Ezekiel 9 is strikingly like the event foretold in Rev. 7:1-3 where angels “seal” the righteous before God’s punishments are poured out on the rest of mankind. This again appears to be a mark visible only to angels, not to humans. Could the “mark” of the beast in one’s forehead also be invisible to humans, but obvious to angels? Could the “mark” of the beast be the lack of God’s spirit in one’s mind (or “forehead”), while God’s “mark” is the presence of the Holy Spirit in one’s mind?



Revelation 9:4 shows an angel unleashing plagues on those without the “seal” of God “in their foreheads.” This prophecy says the mark will be “in” one’s forehead, which implies that one’s thoughts are being referenced. Again, the context indicates that only angels see this mark. The mark of the beast is on the “forehead” and the hands.” Our actions and deeds reveal our thoughts. Perhaps the “mark” prophesied in Rev. 13 simply refers to one’s thoughts (“the forehead”) and deeds (done with “hands”). People will surely show their allegiance to God or the final beast system in their thoughts and their deeds. Presenting these options will, hopefully, motivate readers to think in broader terms for prophetic fulfillments that they have in the past. One lesson of the parable of the ten virgins is that many Christians will still be waiting for expected prophetic events (perhaps including the “mark of the beast”) to become a reality when, in fact, the prophecies about such events will have already been fulfilled in a manner which they did not expect.


excerpt from: http://stevenmcollins.com/html/what_...captivity.html

ZENO PLEASE MOVE TO RGT FORUM. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!

This old SMP thread was resurrected from the past and is moved to RGT as the more fitting forum for discussion. Enjoy!

-Zeno

if there is no visible mark, how will they determine who can buy or sell. also, you have to accept the mark if you want to live. how would a mark be known if it is not visible to everyone. even if i bow down right now and start worshipping satan how would you know unless i wore a sign. in either case, whether im asked to get on my knees for satan or take a brand on my forehead, i would know that what is being presented to me is from the beast and not from God.

we are asked to see if we can decipher what 666 is, which is supposed to identify the beast. i don't think it will be hard to know who the beast is because he will do everything to deny the existence of God and attempt to be the king of the world.

Good question. No one knows the answer definitely but in Nazi Germany I think everyone had to carry identification papers. The government kept strict tabs on everybody.

What if there's a computerized system that we get entered into. Currency problems and identity theft seem to make it more probable they will close the loop some way. There is a constant trend in the world for everyone to computerize everything. Our cars, our banking, bill paying...you name it we'll computerize it.

I think the bible is the best thing you have. Try to know it inside out, keep it in a safe place. If you know it inside out and pray God puts it in your memory so you have a constant reference and easy retrieval then even if you lose the book you still have it with you in memory. Sounds dogmatic but I think its the ancient, tried and true method.

Also you sealed your mind with God's word. That's got to be failsafe. Though baptism is another way to be "sealed" also. Check on the meaning and intent behind baptism.