This is kind of a spin-off from the apple thread. Also I'm speaking specifically to Christians who believe that belief that Jesus was God is a necessary condition for entry into heaven (assuming they've heard of Jesus).

Humans throughout the world are born into very different situations. People are in general shaped by both their genetics and their surroundings. Assuming Christianity is true, some people certainly have a better chance of getting into heaven than others. For example someone who is born as the son or daughter of a Muslim leader will have very little chance of getting into heaven.

Upon birth, people have somewhere between a 0% and 100% chance of getting into heaven, with the actual chances varying widely from person to person. Do you agree or disagree with that statement? If you agree, do you think God is justified in basing entry into heaven on something that is at least in part due to chance?

There is no way to make the claims that you do. First off you would have to have all of the knowledge of how everyone is judged in order to say that some have a better chance than others. You would also have to know exactly what will keep you out of heaven.

You say that a boy born into a Muslim country has less of a chance. That assumes that he is judged exactly the same way as you or I. I see no reason to believe this to be true.

Well, based on what you deduce from the Bible, what do you think is the MINIMUM requirement for entry to Heaven? And then, moving forward, is there a substantially lower chance that a person in country or place X rather than country or place Y meets that requirement?

So you think that at birth every person has roughly the same probability of getting into heaven when they die?

Maybe you see no reason, but what about all the claims the Bible makes about who gets judged and how? Are they all bull**** too?

We know he has to accept Jesus. There are also a number of other conditions which, taken literally, clearly rule out heaven for a devout Muslim.

If you're going to adhere to a rigidly literal definition of hell, then it's inconsistent to take an expansive liberal interpretation of how we get there. Consistently applying such standards supports the conclusion that hell doesn't exist, so you don't really have any outs here.

This is not true. We know for a fact that many people before Jesus lived are in heaven.

You are going to have to elaborate here as I not sure what you are speaking of. Please lay out what you feel my definition of hell is and also what my interpretation of how we get there is. Then show it is inconsistent.

Why don't you quote all of these passages and then tell me how they contradict what I have said here.

I did not say that. I said that everyone has a equally fair chance to get into heaven. So someone is not ****ed if they were born in Iran.

Because I'm lazy and know the answers I'm going to get.

If Jesus says something like "The only way to Heaven is through me", then any other ways into heaven (not including Jesus) are contradictory. But you would say that's wrong. I can't argue this way...it gets tiresome.

John 14:6

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Either take responsibility for your beliefs Jib or realise that they do not align with Christianity and admit it to yourself.

I don't think your bigoted / narrow minded enough to be a good Christian. You seem to see how ridiculous many of the key elements of the religion are but instead of facing up to this you just kind of pretend they are not there.

I disagree. It is already known who will be and who won't be in heaven. Therefore, framing the question in terms of chance is an error.

You're playing theological games and failing.

"Through me" = "the atonement paid via my death that is given as a free gift by grace."

Equally fair chance to get into heaven implies that everyone has the same probability of getting into heaven at birth.

??? So some people are born with no chance of getting into heaven? That's even worse.

There are people who will not get into heaven. There are people who will. All this is already known by God.

exactly

So no point in worrying about it amirite? Fate. Done deal. God already knows. God knows I was going to be an Atheist ldo. Did God tell you he already knows who is getting in or do you need to play some "theological games" to come to that conclusion.

Claim 1: God exists outside of time and is not bounded by the constraints of time.
Claim 2: God is omniscient, meaning that he affirms all true statements

The statement "devilset will be in heaven at the end of time" is either true or false. God knows the answer via his omniscience.

Think you just shot yourself in the foot. At birth, someone born in the US has a much greater chance of becoming a Christian than someone born in Iran. Thus, if all people have equal likelihood of getting into heaven at birth, then either religion doesn't matter or Christianity makes a person less likely to get into heaven.

It is false. It doesn't take a genius to work it out.

God's omniscience is over-rated imo. I just asked him how many fingers I was holding up (I hid my hand under my jumper to make it harder) and he didn't even try to make a guess! pussy.

Basically it boils down to the ridiculous claims you make before you can even begin to contemplate such a ludicrous question. If you can take the massive leaps of faith needed to believe that both of these claims are true then imo you aer capable of believing anything.

Then, iyo, I'm capable of believing anything. Does it make anything I've stated either true or false?

It makes a lot of what you have stated a lot less likely to be true from an objective standpoint. Your claims are not backed up by reasoning and therefore I will not give them any more credibility than they are due.

And what argument have you provided to support your claim:

You "asked" "him" a question and "he" didn't "answer." That's your argument?

You have free will but God already knows how you will end up? God also knows of all natural disasters, wars, etc...? How does he know of these things without creating them himself?