BillNye,

I am curious as to what basis you make the claim that I am only a Christian in name only? This is obviously a statement that is making a pretty strong claim, so I am sure that you have pretty strong evidence to back it up, right?

You're right, I did just contradict myself. Good catch. This proves that I need to put more thought into what I'm saying when I'm handling a subject as important as Gods Word. I got wrapped up in the moment of the back and forth.

To this I say good night all.

Exactly as I said before. Keep in mind, 2 out of 3 dont have running water. 80% make under 10 bucks a day. Yet you are posting on the interenet, not giving up your very short life to help others, an easy trade considering your reward is ETERNAL salvation.

It's this simple really,do you believe that you heaven exists?
-I have given my entire life to jesus, barely have a possession to my name, spend my very very very very short life helping others for eternal salvation.
.... true belief: yes

-I live my life in virtually any other way
.... true belief: no
so which of the two are you?

Or just answer this. Do you need the computer your posting on? Or would it be better to never have bought it and instead save starving people in Africa? Obviously #2 right, save lifes, etc. Yet none of us posting have chosen option #2. Not one of us. That shows our true beliefs much clearer than anything we can post on the internet.

Same for church, if I say you drive to church, your not really a christian, or at least not one that God would accept into heaven. Just my interpretations, obviously you feel differently otherwise you wouldn't have a PC.

Only if you assume that there is 0 redeeming qualities in my having a computer. Also you would have to assume that your salvation and the others here are not as important as the peoples in Africa. You are also assuming that God's plan for each individual is exactly the same. You are also assuming that me having this computer and posting here is not a byproduct of maybe me making enough money to help someone like Mother Theresa do what she does, in a much better manner than I could have ever done it.

I could go on and on about all of the silly assumptions that you would have to make to justify your claim, but I think you know where I am going with this.

Your PC has more redeamable qualities than starving people's lives?

All I'm saying is that if you really believed, truly believed that you were going to heaven at the end of your day. You would not own a PC, you would be spending 100% of your life ensuring you get that eternal salvation, you would not risk it. I don't care that you own a PC, I own one so clearly I don't see anything wrong with that. I just think that church is pack full of hypocrites.

What's with the avatar btw?

Amanda Bynes is awesome! Does it bother you?

ya cuz shes hot and in a revealing outfit making me lust, making me not go to heaven. Not worth the risk imo, I had to block it. TY for responding to this question and not the important one tho

edit: guess I didn't really ask a question in the other reply, but am still interested in your thoughts.

Brad is a fire and brimstone kind of Christian. He doesn't have time for your wishy-washy brand of Christianity. He'll see you in hell (from heaven, of course).

Your avatar is the nuts, plz don't take it down on account of some ignorant atheist making out like God can read our minds.

lol.

my wife was giving me crap about it also. I said to her the same thing I will say to him.

Amanda Bynes is awesome and it is staying up!

The point of my previous point was that we all have to do what we are called to do. I do not believe that we are all called to go to Africa and help he starving children. Not that we should not send money or something, but that we do not have the same calling.

Also, as I have said in the past, who is it that you think contributes to all of these christian out reach programs? Other Christians that have money.

Also, I have an obligation to my family. I have two small children and a wife. I cannot save the world, but I can help a couple people at a time, and charity should start at home.

There is much more that can be said, but do you at least understand where I am coming from?

This post caused me to have a flashback to when I was listening to a sermon at church when I was around 8 or 9 years old. A visiting priest went on and on about how we're all destined for hell despite us all believing that we're going to heaven. He was quoting Paul repeatedly, and I remember looking up the passages that he was talking about and realizing that he was right -- I *was* going to hell. There was no possible way that I could live up to God's expectations. It really upset me. I remember not being able to eat for a couple of days, and crying to my parents about how I didn't want to burn in hell.

What a fun childhood memory.

everybody would be like that if they truly were entrenched in the belief of heaven and hell. Kids are clearly easier to become entrenched in things like this. Adults are just more stubborn, so they avoid those passages.

That means that if we have reason to believe that he was lying, then either God did not say that this was true or God is not the true God (or both).

I'm questioning whether or not God did the right thing.

When you look at Allah, what do you see? Certainly you don't think Allah is anything other than perfect and holy, right? Because it would be absurd for you to suggest that God doesn't do the right thing.

If the Buddhists start worshiping genocidal Gods, then I will fear that they'll get weapons.

I think I fear Christianity for the same reason that you fear Islam. So far, the arguments you provide in defense of Christianity are similar to the arguments used to defend Islam. This doesn't put you in a great position, logically.

I'm asking what you would do in that situation. You said earlier that the God you worship wouldn't ask you to kill, so the "what if" situations aren't relevant. But according to you, God already has ordered people to kill (defenseless women and children). So I find that hard to believe. You claim that your God wouldn't ask you to do such a thing; so presumably if someone tells you that God wants you to do it, you will not believe them. So if Moses told you to kill children, would you tell him off? Or would you kill children?

Or what if you were put in the situation of Isaac? If God asked.

Even if you wouldn't do these things (which seems inconsistent to me, as you believe your God has asked people to do them in the past it seems unrealistic for you to assume that your God could never ask in the future), there are many confused and mentally ill people out there. These Bible stories set a precedent for these people, an idea in their minds that these actions are good and holy. You may view them as tales from a past much different from our present, but given the emphasis that you place on the Bible and the placement of these stories in the Bible, I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to reach the same conclusion. If someone thinks the Bible is the divine word of God, and he reads that in the Bible God has his followers kill his enemies, down to their women and children, then what conclusions is a naive person to draw?

I think he means that you pick and choose your beliefs to suit your purposes. You're a "shopping cart" Christian. You pull the beliefs you like off of the shelves and put them into your cart, but leave the parts about your religion that make you uncomfortable on the shelf and pretend like they don't exist (or explain them away).

I'm sure you'll take this an some kind of insult, but it really isn't. This is how most religious people "follow" their religions. This is the reason that you, Brad1970, NotReady, BigErf, and Splendour all call yourselves Christians, but have *very* different views of about the make-up of your religion.

This is also one of the reasons that Christianity can survive in this day and age. It can be just about anything you want it to be, and nobody can really tell you that you're wrong -- because nobody can really prove that they're right. The Bible can be interpreted in just about every way imaginable.

That is exactly how I feel. I feel family is the most important, especially your kids. I think you should give them absolutely they best life they can have. I also think you should help others that weren't so lucky to be born in America or born into relative wealth.

I just don't need religion to form those values. If you do, and that's what brings you to values I agree with, then fine. However I will never again donate to church, I may donate directly to building wells in Africa, etc.

you explained that better than me... Also it's hard for Christians to be on the same page w/ all the contradictions in the bible. that's why I believe Christianity needs to create a new new testament and throw out the old if they want to be taken seriously in my eyes. By taken seriously, I mean be respectable. I can't and won't respect a religion that says stone your children for believing in a different God.

Again, the God of the bible and the god of the koran are very very different. You can look into that for yourself. I have done enough research to convince me. But I am not educated enough to try and convince you.

And once again, the people in those times were not like we are today. You cannot seem to get over that. Their mindsets and everything were completely different. My reactions as a person today would be very different then how I would react if I was a person of that time.

I agree. You also know absolutely nothing about me other than my posting here. You know nothing of my family or extended family or anything. So for you to make the claim that I am not doing God's work is absurd. You have no idea how much time I spend helping people and you have no idea how much people rely on me here. So stop trying to pretend that you can even begin to imagine what God's plan for me is and that I am not following it.

This brings up a good point as this is one of the first things taught to kids about morality. Abraham was told by God to kill his firstborn Son, Isaac. We, the reader, are told that God was only testing Abraham. However, think how horrible a situation it was for Isaac, and Abraham for that matter. He had to tell his son that he was going to the top of the mountain, and he had a knife. And they were going to be at the top of the mountain for a while. Anyways, the connotation of this, which even a child can understand, is that Abraham truly intended to kill Isaac. And this is the crux, any God that would willfully deceive a man into doing this, is no God worth worshipping. This is one of the assumed tenets, that oh, God tells me to do it, therefore I must. I must do the worst thing in the world which is to kill my son, because God wills it. It is clearly just a reason to ask for obedience, which translates to power.

Jib, so you agree that the old testament is a joke? It seems like once you can accept that the old testament "the inspired word of god" is deeply flawed, you can go from there and realize the other shortcomings of Christianity.

This is what is wrong with most atheists. You seem to have absolutely no grasp on Christianity and what it means to be a christian. You devise your own little definition and then when I do not fit you claim that it is merely because I am hypocritical.

I have been told that I was wrong about things in Christianity and listened intently. Just not by someone that does not care to understand any of the principles such as yourself.