No, it wasn't because of some heart-shattering tragedy.

Background info: I was raised in christian faith; baptized, did my 'first communion' and 'confirmation', etc...
From like 8-9 years old to 11, I prayed every day, something my parents didn't even do. (Not that they didn't pray at all, just not every day)

As a child, I thought everyone believed in god in some way, and different religions were just worshipping the same god with different rituals.

In 1996, at 11 years old, I got the internet (Joy! I had been begging my parents for this for a while)

Back then, there were a lot of pages of 'HPVCA', i.e. Hacking, Phreaking, Virii, Cracking, Anarchy. The 'Anarchy' parts were usually about homemade bombs. I read a lot in the H/P/C sections of those sites; although most of these were written by 'script kiddies', it still had a lot of technical info about how computers and the internet worked, which I found very interesting.

Then one day I looked at the Anarchy part of some sites. I wasn't exactly interested in making a bomb or anything, but I was curious. Often, these sections had articles about satanism, and atheism. This is where I learned that some people(!) challenged the very idea of the existence of a god.

And this is when it struck me: if I had not been raised in christian faith, if people had not told me about the existence of 'God', there is no way I would've come to the conclusion that 'There is a God' on my own.

Nothing in my life had ever pointed to its existence, except what other people said and did. At 11 years old, this really felt like an epiphany.

Rituals, prayers and faith suddenly seemed pointless.

I stopped believing.

Great!

The internet produces 11 year old bomb building atheists. That will lead to a lot of senseless blowing up.

More proof that satan is in the tubes.

Let us know when you start again brother.

ZOMG SATAN GOT A HOLD OF YOU

I have such a romantic image of the old school Internets now. I have no idea what sites your talking about but they sound awesome.

Good arm ditching your religious baggage so swiftly. This thread could be an inspiration for so many looking to do the same.

Nice Post.

I have to say that I am at the opposite end of the spectrum but like you I also was raised in a Christian family. Some of the threads posted on this forum remind me of when I was 12 becasue they ask the same quesions I asked back then

It struck me when I was 18-19 that there has to be God because the idea of everything around me just happening by chance seemed a lot harder to believe. I came to this conclusion on my own because when I was younger I had serious doubt that if there was a God how could there be evil in the world or how do I have free will if God knows everything but once I understood these questions everything became clear to me.

So you only accept as true that which you have thought up for yourself?

No strawman argument please

You are misunderstanding me (or my english sucks), but I'll try to make it clearer.

I'll go with an analogy:
I want to go to town X. Someone tells me it is this way -->. I look down at the map, it says X is this way. Driving along said path, I see a sign written 'X, this way', with an arrow. I follow the road and actually get to X.

From there, I will pretty much believe it when someone, a map AND a sign say something, because everything so far indicates that they are right.

Now let's say the same thing happens, but, along the way, someone tells me, 'no, X is the OTHER way!'. Why exactly would I believe them when absolutely nothing gives them credibility? I will follow the map/signs, because it makes more sense.

My point is, I can accept a statement as true even I did not come up with it myself, when other factors give it credibility. But when someone says 'There is a God', and absolutely nothing in my life corroborates that statement, why should I believe it?

God hasn't talked to me, he has never (that I know of) answered my prayers, and I have never witnessed a miracle.

This is like me saying, there is currently an invisible, untouchable banana floating behind your head, and there is no way for you to disprove me.
Why would you ever believe me?

You could argue that a lot of people believing the same thing gives it credibility, but I would counter-argue by saying pretty much everyone thought the earth was flat for a very long time, and they were wrong.

Just realized I could've answered more briefly:

I accept as true that which I *could* think up for myself, given the appropriate knowledge/tools/whatever is needed. I don't *have* to, but if I can't come to the same conclusion as you, then I will not accept what you say as true.

why is it A) Chance B) God ???

There's more to life than we know, ya know.

Well there's nothing logical about learning about God from sites and people who lost or deny him. The only thing good from these sites is they pose questions in your mind that you can think over or take to God for an answer. Most of the answers are in his book the bible already though a lot is experiential and you need some smarter/experienced religious folk to explain the deeper things to you. Personally I've started reading the greats like Tozer, Wesley, Chambers, etc. but there are plenty of others.

The God deniers are only good for forming complex questions but they never supply the correct answers.

If I want to learn how to bake a cake I go to a cook not somebody who can't cook. But a lot comes down to the desire to learn.

1) I'm not sure I even understand what you mean in your first paragraph so I can't reply to it...

2) I find it's the other way around ; atheists aren't the ones trying to answer 'Why?' Besides, there are no 'correct' answers to questions like 'Why life?', only opinions.

3) You know cakes exists because you have eaten them before. I could bake you a cake and you could eat it.
I have never experienced god, and you cannot make me experience god.

Splendour... who would you go to to learn about unicorns, Zeus, or ghosts?

this is not the same thing at all. if you went to a priest and asked him how to get eternal life he would tell you belief in god is the way. you would ask him how he knows and he would tell you he read it in the bible. if you went to a baker and asked him how to bake a cake he would tell you the way to do it and when you asked him how he knows he would say i read it in a book and i tried it for myself and it works.

edit lol looks like i was a little late

Catholic??

I think a lot of people use the term "God" to mean "A force outside observable reality that orders reality."

Either there's no outside force which shapes the nature of reality (Chance) or there is (some non-chance term). What to call this theoretical non-chance scenario is just semantics IMO.

Just pointing out that this is a piss-poor reason to believe in God. Argument from incredulity ftw.

What I've noticed is the arguments that ostensibly solve these conundrums only seem to satisfy someone who already believes. (This should be the first clue that something's not right)

Since it appears you believe in the Christian God...

Do you not see a problem with an all-loving God that will send you to hell if you don't believe in him? Does this not seem contradictory to you?

Also, why would an all-loving, all-powerful God create a planet with actively moving tectonic plates causing tons of unnecessary suffering from earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, etc. Venus doesn't have any active plate tectonics. Why couldn't God make earth more like venus?

But I didnt believe at first in fact I questioned the idea of God.

No. Do you see a problem with people rejecting an all-loving God and then God letting them into heaven anyway?

I provided a link in another thread why I think there is suffering in the world.

Nothing I said above was complicated but just everyday common sense.

Why do people come to this poker forum?

They come to learn from people who care about the game and have a degree of expertise. That's the same reason why you read a poker book.

So why would you apply a different standard to the things of God?

If you want to know about God go to the people that claim to understand him and cared to know him.

God for some people can be a lot harder to get than learning how to bake a cake.

If I want to know what God's about I want to go to someone who lived it. I want to hear from someone who either spent his life in the pursuit of God or who laid it on the line and risked everything he had for God. Because I want to hear it all from the highest and the best sources. The bible is one of those sources. Dietrich Bonhoeffer risked it all. Wesley and Tozer and Oswald Chambers lived it. Better than all of that is these guys try to describe it so we can put it into practice.

I think practical theology is a whole lot more useful than the theology of logic. Of course, the St. Augustines have their place but I don't know if he spent a lot of time telling you how to have a relationship with God or how to interpret that relationship.

An atheist certainly doesn't spend time trying to have a relationship with God because he's too busy refuting him.

So my suggestion is read the bible, read the Greats and have a whole of patience (try imagining you're in the most demanding poker game of your life and it requires the utmost in patience. I'm a lagtard so I fail a lot at the patience thing myself but a lot of 2+2ers are Nits. Just imagine this: you are playing a poker game with God and you have to out patient him while you keep talking to him trying to get a tell...that's how you play the game with God.)

Hope that helps.

He doesn't. There is nothing that dictates that people who are currently religious necessarily know more about religion or faith than people who currently are not.

He didn't say he wants to know "about" God. It's also very telling that you have to mention that people like yourself only CLAIM to understand God. Atheists CLAIM to have a better understanding of the universe. Muslims CLAIM to understand Allah. So why would he necessarily choose one over the other?

His mission is not to try very hard to end up as a Christian. That is what you want him to do.

This is all bs irrelevance by someone who just posted the other day that you hated God.

But why would you wish on him that he stays disconnected from God.

He said in his OP that he genuinely tried to find God. Then a thought (who sent him that thought?) came into his head.

Its just common sense.

We learn from the people who get results in this world.

An atheist didn't get the results the OP originally sought after. Also each atheist got his poor results from a different source or reason or conclusion sometimes because of their own personalities, perceptions or lack of opportunity.

I just gave him an opportunity to study what the Greats say. Wesley influenced Wilberforce into stopping slavery. Bonhoeffer died trying to stop Hitler, Chambers I think was a missionary and the inspiration to other missionaries. These ARE the people claiming to have a relationship with God and they explain the process.

I'm an enabler. He makes his own choice. You got a problem with him making his own choice?

Tozer, Wesley, Bonhoeffer and Chambers are claiming they are +EV with God.

Inapt analogy. Here's a better one: If I want to know whether the Bush administration was successful, the best way to come to a judgement would not be to interview Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly and read White House press releases.

Well one you're mixing up worlds now the natural with the spiritual.

I'm interested in the people that can interpret their results accurately and put them into practice not just ask tough questions.

I can ask my own tough question and I really don't need to superimpose someone else's tough questions to further confuse me though occasionally I might learn something additional.

Don't people have enough of their own misformed stones to stumble on without adding someone else's misformed stones to their path.

Um, what? Pretty sure I never said this, but if I did it was obviously in jest since I don't hate things that I don't believe exist. I only recall saying anything along these lines in a joking conversation with Jib a week back or so, where I was intentionally mocking the "atheists hate God" line of attack. FWIW Jib recognized that it was a joke.

You DO recall what atheism is, right? I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A GOD. I don't believe that anyone is any more or any less connected to God than I am, ya dig?

What? He DID make his own choice. Do you even know what thread you're in?