Hmmm, if you believe God's ultimate purpose for us is whether to choose him or not, you don't see anything weird about why God designed us in a way that we have to eat, sleep, work 2 jobs, have all these responsibilities?

i'm still a student. so no, i dont have to take care of another person yet. but when it's time, i will because i don't think my ultimate purpose for my creation is to choose god or not

Probably won't make much difference to you, but fwiw, I see these things as part of the curse of sin. We live in a broken world. These things will not be necessary in heaven.

You are free to live your life as you see fit. The point I was trying to make is that my faith and my family are both central to my life. I see one as an extension of the other, if you will. My family is a gift from God, and it is good service to God for me to care for them. I'm not saying 'you're not a parent so you can't possibly understand'. I'm sure you're be an excellent Father when the time comes. I pray it will be a blessing in your life, and not a burden.

I haven't been following this 1 on 1 discussion youve been having, but to clarify, you claim the "ultimate" purpose in life is to choose to love God, correct?

if so, once someone has made that decision:

1. Can they change their mind?
2. Are they free to do whatever they want? If no, please elaborate.
3. Kill themselves and still guarantee a spot in heaven?

1) Yes. However, if you fully understood the need for Christ, and consciously made the decision to reject him, this would be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and is unforgivable. God cannot force you to love him.

2) Depends on how you define 'free'. If you mean 'without eternal separation from God', then yes. If you mean 'without earthly consequence', then no. Paul does write a warning about this:

This is specific to sins against your own body (addiction, drug abuse, gluttony, etc).

Furthermore, earthly consequences for sins against other humans is considered righteous. You are not exempt from punishment from the law if you kill another.

3) Suicide is not unforgivable.

Atonement for sin was accomplished once and for all through Christ. Once I accept this atonement, my sin is forgiven, both past and future. This does not mean sin does not carry a burden here. For example, if I abuse alcohol, it will ravage my body and have dire consequences on my life and the life of those around me. I should strive to live a life free of sin because it is of benefit to me now, while on this earth.

but why prolong your life on earth if your job here is done? Let's say we are talking about a person who has chosen to love God, but is single and has no other responsibilities ... in fact let's say he's actually a *burden* on society (perhaps a homeless vagrant, or paraplegic living on government money, etc). Wouldn't it be best for him, and everyone else, if he just kills himself? what other purpose does his life serve?

Whatever further purpose God had in putting him on earth in the first place, which he doesn't necessarily know at the moment.

Do you want to pm you so we can discuss God's message together as brothers in Christ? It sounds to me like you are lost and looking for someone looking for you.

Your sample size is junk fwiw, but this is a poker forum so I don't expect you to understand the law of large numbers or anything.

A lot of people live for other causes than "omg I'm gonna convert you!" as well. Do you really want Christians to die young and dump all their children on you? How could Christians nice enough to donate money to starving people continue to do so if they are dead?

I think not. Also, God wants us to enjoy this creation with him. Do you think God wants us to not enjoy his creation? It is blissful here already isn't it?

Also letting yourself die from a cancer or some other malignant illness that has a possibility of being cured is akin to suicide. Are you suggesting Christians intentionally let themselves die? That is not the Christian way.

It's not un-Christian to want to live long and be successful in life. You're calling bs on nothing and your argument is baseless and really quite stupid. Part of being a good Christian is to love your neighbor, and be kind to others. It's not 100% about converting other people.

and what if that purpose is to choose to love god, and then to kill yourself?

bhere2pk,
thanks for your offer but i'm happy with my life. also, it's impossible for me to believe any religions thanks to science.

kb coolman,
the reasons for why we spend 8hrs a day, eat and everything else is because of curse of sin? i mean, science has pretty decent explanations as to why we do all those things. why would you reject them for some far fetched theory?

I'm not rejecting science for some far fetched theory. I believe I've come to my faith as a matter of personal experience. When I have tested God, I've found him to be good.

I'm not rejecting science at all. Science explains certain things within the scope of a fallen creation, because that's all science knows and cannot accept that there is something more perfect to come. Science cannot measure the soul or spirit. Within those limitations, I agree with most scientific explanations. For example, survival of the fittest is scientifically proven. But it is only necessary because we live in a fallen world. The need for labor is the result of sin. At least I don't see heaven as a place where we need to work so our basic necessities are met. Nor do I think we'll need sleep. Eating, now that's another thing entirely, because food is awesome.

What about sex. Eternity without sex..idk.

Obv.

Same for good beer, good wine, and a fine cigar.

And a 12yo single malt.

I dont drink much. I try to stay away form the hard manufactured drugs and just use what God gave us in nature.

Matthew 26:29 "I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

And?

sleep is more awesome than food, imo. eating is a hassle more often than not.

That reminds me of a southpark episode.... Hope you guys don't get too carried away.

Especially if its going to be an eternity of no sleep with your "mind" always going. Id at least want a few million year naps.

We can't feed the needy if we do that, I think that is part of God's plan.

It makes more sense from a scientific aspect to kill yourself... I mean ask Richard Dawkins ffs.

He's like the Pope of you guys amirite?

Nuanranec

tehe... wasn't being serious ofc I was really just making a joke that atheists have more campaigns to kill themselves than Christians do currently. (I guess minus the Heavens Gate cult but we all know that was bull****.)

But seriously how can wealthy Christians feed the poor if they let themselves die from things that are curable in a modern society? Who would run all of the Christian charities as well? The children or anyone lucky enough to live past a ruptured appendix? Or any other trivial ailment for that matter. Who would you post with in RGT forums?

You guys don't want them all dead :P

You would miss some of us soo much! It is a cute discussion however.

Anyways who cares? If you can philosophically disprove God (with a short paragraph might I add) we would be beyond this discussion (by "we" I mean any atheist reading here) so keep searching lost ones, you will find your answer.

Well if children are guaranteed salvation then killing them would be the most merciful thing because they would no longer risk eternal salvation and they would be in a perfect paradise. I kid mostly..

As far as Christians having a purpose on earth after you have become saved if you dont proselytize. Meh.... do what ya got to do.
If being able to prove God exists or not (with a short paragraph) is a requirement for not being lost. Then i think everyones a little lost. That and the bible needs some heavy redacting.

Yes and their children have the same opportunity... oh wait no, they died at a young age so they don't have any generations following them. Sounds more like shrinking opportunities for later generations to me.

I do proselytize and I encourage other Christians as well so I don't know what you mean about that. I guess what point I was really trying to make by mentioning a short philosophical paragraph being able to "disprove God" is that... You (as an atheist) should be released from thinking and discussing a non existent being.

You're basically a trekkie about God imo, and furthermore if you died and faced him you wouldn't be able to accept him. So after all those hundreds of minutes wasted thinking about him you get absolutely nadda. zilch. Unless you are seriously trying to "proselytize" people to your eternal nothingness? I don't see any benefits for you trying to sell it either. (Or do you atheists get some kind of a commission based on your sales?)

That was the point of the argument that has been going on in this thread. If someones saved and they dont proselytize, whats their purpose?

I dont know there is not a creator to this universe so i can't be released form thinking about that question. Plus i like to think about it and discuss it. Why should non believers in your God be excluded from the Big questions?
As long as your God negatively affects me ill be interested in him. If you want to call that wasted time that's fine i have wasted time on far more meaningless things.

When it comes to convincing you that all there is is nothingness. I dont know that so its not something i would proselytize other then to say i think its a possibility.

Your confusing me with someone who cares that you believe in God, i really dont. I just care about how your God affects me. And mostly i just like to argue about things.

You mean the supposedly fictional existence of my God is negatively affecting you?
Like laws and things based off religion and societal traditions, etc.
Or do you mean you actually believe there is a god and he is negatively affecting you directly?
I wouldn't mind a few examples I'm just curious.

Edit: Atheists can ask big questions. However it seems in general atheism would allow you to live your life without wondering about nonsense such as a supposed eternal god of some sort. That's why I was attracted to it initially. Sort of like a highly efficient way of living without some sort of guilt or responsibility for doing anything normal.