First of all, there is no literature that mentioned Jesus Christ before 70 A.D., the year of the fall of Jerusalem during the Jewish Revolt that saw the Temple crumble, as supposedly prophesied by Christ in 40 years earlier. I turns out, Jesus was only able to predict it because the Gospels were written after the event happened. Hindsight is 20/20.

The earliest Gospel (Mark) was written after 70 A.D. The rest were written decades later. And no one even knows who Mark, Luke, Matthew, and John were. Outside of the Bible, Jesus was mentioned by two non-Christian historians, Tacitus (who mentions Jesus in 119 A.D.) and Josephus (who mentions Jesus in 94 A.D.

For more details, check out the movie below to get a very logical explanation why Jesus never existed and was merely a fictional character created by the Flavian Caesar's to pacify the Jews.

Caesar's Messiah -- The Flavian Signature (Movie)


Interested in what you guys think.

Haven't watched the video yet but my first response is "...meh."

Saying there wasn't a dude named Yeshua (Jesus, although today the English name would be Joshua) who was a prophet in the first century in that part of the world would be like a documentary saying that today there isn't a guy named Bob who works at McDonalds. Of course there is, because guys named Bob are a dime a dozen and so are McDonalds employees.

You'd have an easier time suggesting there were multiple Jesuses running around. There were ****loads of messiahs and prophets in the first century and Yeshua was a common name. Not outright fabrications really, but stuff that should make you say "Well... that's not really accurate."

As to whether or not the man in the Bible is accurately described, I don't see how that much is in question. Either you buy the idea that a dude walked on water and changed water into wine and raised the dead, in which case no Youtube video is going to convince you otherwise. Or, you think miracles and such are bull****, in which case the Bible is obviously false.

One thing is beyond a doubt: You can't separate the Biblical account of Jesus from his miracles. Even the Bible itself says: "…13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain."

So if you're not buying into the whole resurrection shtick, there's no point to the story of Jesus. If you are, well, an internet rant set to some still pictures and posted on Youtube isn't going to change much.

My final thought before watching the video is that any time someone makes a dramatic claim on an established subject, the first thing you should ask is, "What are they selling?" Oh look... books and speaking engagements galore. I'm sure this is legit.

Second edit: Ten minutes in and all I've really seen is claims without evidence and misrepresentations of what documents they do reference.

Also, they keep going back to one quote "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" and just rip it out of context and/or missing the intent entirely. The passage in question (Matthew 22:15-22) isn't about Jesus telling the Jews to suck Caesar's dick. It's about him outsmarting the Pharisees, religious leaders of the day who weren't fans of Jesus.

They ask Jesus if they should pay taxes; they don't ask because they actually want an answer, they ask because they know Jesus is ****ed if he says yes (because the Jews will hate him) or if Jesus says no (the Romans will get pissed).

Jesus, realize the Pharisees are being *******s, says,

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

The video tries multiple times to make it sound like Jesus is telling all the Jews to pay taxes, when the reality is that he's telling the Pharisees to **** off.

As a guy who was once religious and isn't anymore, videos like this put me on tilt. There are so many solid reasons not to believe in Christianity, then something like this comes along and allows Christians to claim "Look at this... atheists are full of bull****!" and be right.

The OP doesn't present a shred of evidence that Jesus was fabricated (as the title claims), merely notes that the evidence in support of Jesus' existence is somewhat limited. I'm not going to watch the video.

Do you believe Jesus was the Messiah and existed as the gospels depict? If I did, it would really bother me if someone started touting evidence that support for Jesus' existence was somewhat limited and I'd definitely be watching his video lest I be placing my faith in a fairytale.

i watched ben hur yest, enough evidence for me.

Eh. IMO the video is junk. If someone put out a 90 minute video on how evolution not only isn't real, but is a deliberate conspiracy by 19th century aristocrats, would you watch it? If you started watching it and it was vague, with giant leaps of logic and little actual evidence, most of which was misrepresented anyway, how long would you keep watching?

I'm an atheist, but the video in the OP isn't good. :-/

Ancient Aliens has more credible proof than this video IMO. At least Ancient Aliens has "evidence", this feels like 90 minutes of their own interpretation of documents.

Here's what I know Emperor Titus was thinking...

"The rebel Jews (Zealots, Essenes, etc.) from our province of Judea have been a pain or our side. Thank god (Jupiter) we finally beat them by leveling Jerusalem and taking over Masada.

Hmmmm, how can we stop future guerrilla attacks from these violent people that killed 6,000 of our troops in 67 A.D.? Aha!! I know. Let us create a kind of religion that emphasized turning the other cheek instead of one that keeps looking forward to a warrior-like King David-style messiah (a.k.a. "savior") killing us Romans.

By brainwashing these surviving Judeans with pacifist attitudes, we no longer have to worry about future attacks...at least not while the current Administration is running the Roman Empire.

Hmmmm what is "savior" or "messiah" in the Hebrew language? Aha!! "Yeezus!" Let's call this new peaceful messiah (a.k.a. "christ") "Jesus"...."Jesus Christ!"

...and let us make him poor just like the surviving Judeans and let us make sure that he is not a mass murderer like King David, Joshua, and Elijah.

Perfect!!!"

The above describes the movie in the OP.

Again, there was never a mention of Jesus Christ in any form of literature until after 70 A.D. The first Gospel was Mark and the rest (the Gnostic ones included) were written in the decades that followed. Tacitus and Josephus, non-Christians, mention Jesus decades after Mark.

If I can just get 12 converts (12 Tribes of Israel, the 12 Apostles, 12 Days of Christmas) from Two Plus Two in this accurate kind of thinking, I'm happy.

How do you know this? Because that's what the internet video says? Surely, you can do better than that...

Just no.

What about Paul's epistles?

So the Romans created a messiah whose main activity was trashing the Pharisees who collaborated with Rome? Was thermite used to bring down any temples?

Of course there was a Jesus. All that stir came from somewhere. Due to the shortage of sources, we can't tease out the historical Jesus from the scriptural construction, but we've got other reasons to think he existed. Like Starving mentioned, they were mad for the Messiahs back then, one was sure to catch on. Sure there's a large element of invention, but it's being done by Christians. It's a social movement, not a cutout group of Roman cops.

Even Bart Ehrman wrote a book defending the historical Jesus...

http://www.amazon.com/Did-Jesus-Exis...775251&sr=1-13

You want to know what I think? I think this is an extremely dumb theory, one that is not thought out every well.

The strange thing is that some forms of "Christianity" were really created by Romans and certain concepts of "Jesus Christ" may not have really existed; however, Yeshua the Mashiach did exist. Are there any serious academic historians that doubt the historicity of "Jesus"?

The difficulty is that there is some syncretism between paganism and the original Messianic movement and in modern "Christianity", the sheer number of errors or misconceptions is astounding. Maybe it's about time to address some of these in another thread.

In Mt 5:17-20 ( of the Sermon on the Mount ), Yeshua is basically saying that people that keep and teach the 613 mitzvot of the Tanakh will be called "great in the kingdom of heaven", i.e., Jews. Sorry, but the vast majority of "Christians" will not be "great" in this sense. Yeshua already warned everyone in that passage about the sheep and the goats, but you would almost never hear the proper interpretation of that passage in a church.

Not really. Pretty much any time you hear a guy saying "Jesus didn't exist!" they're either just being clever and meaning "Jesus as presented by the Bible didn't exist in the sense that his actions and miracles are likely false or exaggered" or, if they mean to say he really really didn't exist, just wait a few minutes, and they'll certainly follow up with "find out more in my overpriced book/lecture/video series!"

I disagree that Mt 5:17-20, Jesus is teaching that we need to obey the letter of the law. He goes on in 5:21-48 to explain what he meant. I.e. "It hath been said (in the law), but I say unto you...

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[h] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren[i] only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

I don't think your chronology is correct. Where does he talk about the sheep and the goats before Matthew 5:17-20?

Excellent mass mind control and brainwashing by the Romans. They knew that the Judeans were very religious and they used that religiousness to their advantage. Their objective was to pacify the Jews and it worked during their (Vespasian and Titus's) lifetimes.

Funny how something that was just used for short term political control grew beyond its original purpose. The Romans had no idea that the propaganda that they used would eventually grow its own wings and create a life of its own - sort of like the machines/artificial intelligence in the Matrix and Terminator movies, who eventually took over the earth.

LOL at Rome 300 years later when Christianity gobbled it up. Hahaha. What irony.

Update 2014: Roman Empire gone. Christianity stronger than ever.

Christianity was much stronger at different points in history. But since this thread has little to do with actual history, I guess such claims make perfect sense.

There's just hardly any evidence that this theory is true, and the evidence presented is easily refuted.

The epistles were written before 70 A.D.

The gospels encourage Jews to proselytize non-Jews.

The new testament discourages people from sacrificing to the Caesars, which was a Roman mandate.

The parallels between the NT and the War of the Jews are obvious bull****.

Joseph Atwill has no experience in Biblical or historical studies.

There is no evidence of the Romans using this kind of subterfuge to dominate people.

Did you want the link to the video I posted?

This theory is such obvious bull**** you should be embarrassed that you fell for it for even a few minutes. Five minutes on google shows what junk it is, you don't even need "real" research.

When Christians say atheists don't know what they're talking about, they're pointing at you.

The Jesus as God claim should take as much heat. But it dont...

"...unless your righteousness surpasses the scribes and the Pharisees...":

http://ffoz.org/messiahonline/articles/_print/00119.php

I watched almost half of the video and saw nothing convincing. I'm not surprised how people "butchered" some passages of the "New Testament" and ignored some problematic issues that would be embarassing to point out.

Okay, I just read starvingwriter82's obvious critique of the poor interpretation of Yeshua's answer concerning paying taxes to Caesar; truly, an excellent reply by Yeshua ( that emphasizes that humans are really created in Hashem's image ).