Agreed

It wasn't clear.

I guess you fell for the let's see if you can pass "the rational man" test on here.

Personally, I couldn't care less if I pass some test in your head that God doesn't hold me to.

I know I'm indwelt.

Instead of rolling around in atheist pissing contests you should have studied theology until God enlightened you but you took the low road....oh well...

I hope God blesses you with a change of heart.

Lemonzest, what do you see as the biggest challenges for modern Christianity in terms of staying relevant and inclusive in an increasingly secular world?

Splendour, I am very familiar with how God purportedly talks, I've spent more time reading the Bible cover to cover than any other intentional task I've undertaken. Nothing that has EVER come out of your rambling and incoherent mouth over the last 6 years has given me the impression that you are familiar with the Bible, that you actually read it, or that you are in any way qualified to speak faithfully on its behalf.

I lost my faith while reading the Bible for hours on end. Had nothing to do with "rational man tests" on 2+2.

He he...

I'm possibly the most qualified person on this board because I take the most risks for God.

So I pass God's loyalty test better than anybody else on here.

But you can start the rational man pissing contest again. That's all elitists are really interested in in serving their own egos. They're interested in establishing pecking orders.

If you'll submit to their pecking order then they can own you.

I never let anybody own me but God. If somebody's going to own you...then they better be the very best and not some person who's life you can't even see on the Internet.

Some of these so-called rational atheists on here could be real thugs in real life whether or not they know geometry or can reason logically.

In fact most good poker players have to adopt "thug mentalities" to be winning players.

On what evidence are you more loyal to God than the other Christians on this board? I'm not sure why you'd want to throw your fellow theists under a bus like this just to score points against the non-believers.

Some passages you might want to study a little further

Proverbs 27:2
Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; a stranger, and not your own lips.

2 Corinthians 11:30
If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.

I might not be more loyal but I accept more risks.

How can God assess loyalty if you won't take a risk?

And I didn't praise myself.

Is an observation a praise?

Don't we have greater problems seeing truth online than other places?

Speaking boldly is an advantage God never likes to see hampered.

I'd say the person most qualified to talk for God is the one who persuades most people to believe in him, not the one who pushes people further and further from christianity on a daily basis.

LEMONZEST is doing it right.

Luckily though Splendour isn't arguing, she's just proving she's right.

She's not interested in arguing. Just demosntrating she is right.

There different

I think you have a lot to learn about humility.

If you read the bible you would know that is false.

I can find some quotes from the bible that would disagree with you. Additionally, what if my questioning and reasoning lead me to rejection of all of the versions of Christianity? Do I go to hell or heaven when I die, considering that my position will be of a nonbeliever. I find it quite ridiculous that the smartest being possible would base his decision of granting access to everlasting life on some rigged test. Because that's what it seems to be, a rigged test.

So there is some imaginary scale that God created where sins need to be paid for. This sounds like some fantasy story about an angry volcano which is about to explode but if only we can sacrifice few valuables (preferably living beings) then the volcano will be happy again and won't erupt. Same goes with Christian story. There is some giant bucket into which all the sins are thrown into and the bucked is about to spill over but if you kill son of God all of the sudden the bucket will become infinitely big and will fit all the sins forever. This is so ridiculous.

Can you tell me what do you imagine doing in heaven day after day? Because somehow I am unable to create a vision of heaven that would be free of paradoxes.

Care to present it to us?

God could have simply forgive all the sins, why murder his own son? What a dick move, he has magical abilities to simply wipe all the sins away because in reality there is nothing or nobody restricting him from doing so YET he creates this unnecessary suffering for his own son! Hey our economy sucks maybe Barrack Obama should kill his children so that we could fix the problem... brilliant solution right?

Yet he failed to predict that there will be homosexuals out there? Or did he know that they will. Can something exist in this universe without God's acceptance/approval/plan (whatever you call it)? In the sense that whatever exists and comes to exist in this Universe is already on God's list or does the Universe itself have a free will and things can happen against God's will? And since homosexuality is not a choice and it also occurs naturally in many other animals, did that come to be by God's approval or random chance God didn't anticipate to happen?

Not true. What it simply shows is that someone wrote the manuscripts and some of the information in it might be true and some might be false. Some we know is true some we know is false. When it comes to all of the supernatural claims in the Bible we don't have any evidence that they did actually happened.

No it's not epic , it's lame. God adds more unnecessary suffering. What is this obsession of your God with suffering? Why is he so into sadism and masochism?

So as the good old Hitchens once said (I'm paraphrasing), according to your religion people are created sick and commanded to be well. That makes so much sense , right? You also said it's unrealistic for someone to never sin again. So when you go to heaven you will continue to sin? Or all of the sudden it will become realistic not to sin? Why wouldn't God skip the whole process and just create us in heaven? Why go through this dumb plan of suffering and pain? Oh wait, I know what you will say, it's a test to weed out weak characters right? Is God not aware at the moment of creating a human how he will turn out to be, yet even if he knows at the moment of creation that this individual will end up killing people and going to hell he still goes about creating him/she. Why? Is he restricted by some laws that tell him, hey if you are going to create a human you have to create him and let him live and end up in hell even if you are already aware of his future?


Why do you cherry pick the commands that fit your life and your views? Are you currently sitting in clothing that is made of mixed fabrics? If so , then why are you not following the command that requests you not to mix fabrics. Oh is it because it would be too inconvenient for you? Going to stores and making sure that every piece of clothing you buy is made of one fabric, right? Tell me. Why would God even command such dumb stuff. What is it for him that people were clothing made of mixed fabric. Does it hurt his eyes? Does he have allergies?

How so? Your religion as other religions make silly unsupported claims, how does it make your religion less silly than others? Give me one reason why should I take your fantasy claims from your holy book more seriously than others?

Very general statement , care to elaborate on what documents and you talking about? And why should a claim in some document be more credible because it happens to be also written in another book by authors with the same agenda. So just because I can find 20 different creationist books which all claim that the earth is 10,000 years this claim is true?

False. There is a basis that the New Testament manuscript that was found actually exists but you cannot conclude that the supernatural or other natural claims made in them are actually true. How do you actually go into a conclusion that what is actually written in it is true because we found this book?

No there are no historical facts about the resurrection. Care to tell me what are those facts I am unaware of? And how you came to conclusion that these are actually facts?

Huh??? Tomb was empty therefore resurrection happened? I know WLC is one dishonest person but you really buy into this silly argument? Don't you see the fallacy in the argument?


Nonsense, there are plenty of studies that show that children under age of 1 already recognize fairness.


What would you replace it with? Almost every few seconds you make some type of decision I'm quite sure 99% of those decisions have zero to do with your religious beliefs. Humans are naturally aware of many moral concepts and there is no need for 10+ commandments. Do you see atheist going around the streets of any city and murdering and pillaging ? Or are their morally based actions indistinguishable from Christians?

Hey, I'm the one that accepted God's prop bet and stepped out on the water on here.

You're the one who submitted to people's piss poor thinking like it's authoritative.

I think I'll leave the humility decisions to God.

The Question of Loyalty
http://wake-up.org/daystar/ds2002/JanA.htm

im just looking for clarification on my questions...especially the one about did Jesus smoke weed?


Oh also during the dark ages, Christianity was used to suppress the masses.....what year did it go from being a liberation movement to a suppressive teaching....and which year did it turn back into a liberation again?

It's irrelevant to my point. You are obviously more loyal to God than me or any atheist, and take more risks for God than me or any atheist.

What you did, though, is assert that you are better than anyone else in this forum.

You think you accept more risks for God than Dogggg.
You think you accept more risks for God than RLK.
You think you accept more risks for God than Aaron W.
You think you accept more risks for God than Lemonzest.
You think you accept more risks for God than Shuffle.
You think you accept more risks for God than NotReady.
etc

This is vanity and hubris.

You're not qualified to judge me.

You're advocating the anti-God side on here.

I'd as soon submit to your opinions as to the devil himself.

I will not bow down to your bogus opinions since I don't consider you in your right mind when you're arguing an anti-god position.

I'm like Daniel. Daniel's name means "God is my judge."

You may be fearful enough to fear public opinion when it turns against you but I'm not. I expect it to.

Harsh but fair

[QUOTE=Doctor Zeus;34562126]What are you considering career wise?
If it were up to you, what would be the better aim; everyone being Christian, or everyone being happy/able to live a happy life?
QUOTE]

Hey Doc,

Right now I work in an office that does commercial flooring projects. We re tile malls and large retail spaces. I do the ordering and shipping/logistics kind of stuff. I also did a 2 year diploma in Library and Information Technology which I felt was a waste of time. I did 1 year of a business degree but then I got married. I stopped my business degree but I really want to complete it at some point. I like the idea of being self employed but I have to work out a good plan first.

To your second question: seems pretty tricky. I cannot answer "it would be good for everyone to have a happy life" I assume you mean live a happy life and ignore God. It would be better for people to know God and have a relationship with Him. Hardships in life are inevitable. I think it is better to go through life with God.

I am pretty sure this is not answered to your satisfaction but thats the best I can do.

Not like someone is actually ignoring something that is evident to exist. What's the difference between the relationship you claim to have with God versus the relationship a Muslim claims to have with his God, versus a Hindu that claims to have a relationship with his own God and versus someone who claims to have a relationship with his invisible friend Bob? And also, how can you know God? In what sense? It's not like you go out for dinner with him and get to meet him and get to know things about him. You don't even get a response from him when you ask him questions. What type of knowing of someone is this? Also, do you think that people from other religions who believe in God's of all kinds who claim to have relationships with them are they really having relationships with them or are they deluded? What makes you think you aren't deluded as well?

Never said it did. That is what the living together is for. Until you live with someone you dont really know them in a way to know that you will be able to live with them.

It helps to see if you are sexual compatible. Do you like to have sex a few times a week or on birthdays, and such.... Hard to know if you have never had it. And big enough differences can kill a relationship.


Its like jumping off a cliff without looking down to see if there is water.

The STD stuff is a sidestep. You could take a virgin couple and i would suggest they live together and have sex before entering into a lifelong commitment.

Think about it.

If you submit to the devil didn't you submit to fear, worry, and other existential/mental states you never should have had to.

Daniel did not submit to fear when people around him turned on him and God saved him out of all his prisons both real and imagined.

Unbelief is a mental state. I think you could classify it as a mental disease but nobody on here will tell you that so you can beat it. All the theists on here are afraid of hurting your feelings so they take the long road of argumentation with you.

But I won't. I think you guys are crazy and ought to break out of your atheistic prisons.

Imagine you guys had cancer and all I talked about were toothaches. Now how is that going to help you?

It's not....the cancer will kill you...but of course if I did that I'd get points for sparing your feelings in the eyes of the world. The devil would like me to treat your cancer like a toothache then you never get out of his mind jail.

Its good to see you have no fear, or worries.

Could you explain this? What is a mental disease?

Then you should probably stop posting here as all you've ever done (from what i can tell) is drive people further and further away from christianity.


"Imagine us guys didn't believe in god, and all you talked about was aliens building the pyramids/attachment/any other thing"
Your right, your not helping anyone. What would be good is if you directly engaged with points, or were open to discussion. like this dude

One side or the other is right.

Either theists are delusional or atheists are in denial.

If you're in denial you can stay in a lot of mind/body disassociative identity states.

You will never have to resolve any of them but that still doesn't prove or disprove the existence of God.

Thats not how belief works.