Splendour, do you agree with the biblical account of the origin of languages? If so, could you point us toward some extrabiblical evidence?

Sry, I think if people are truly interested they can research for themselves.

Really, when's the last time you went to China? Unless you have recently visited and seen the government jail a Christian solely for being Christian and burn down a church with your own eyes, please refrain all judgement because you hold no authority in making those claims. [/sarcasm]

This reminds me of an ex-boyfriend's church who went on a mission to China to build a church in a rural town because the government! They burn down all of the churches and antagonize Christians! Only when they got there, they discovered that there was already a Christian church in that town. Two, in fact.

Religious persecution exists everywhere, and is often times exaggerated or magnified. Last time I checked, Christianity in Asia, including China and Taiwan, is now largely accepted. This past summer, I saw Christian Churches everywhere, especially in major cities. They're not hidden in some dark alley, or in the sketchy part of town, either. I saw a rather nice one next to a brand new shopping center. Some of my relatives who live there have converted to Christianity and are openly practicing Christianity, but I still see them summer after summer. Guess they haven't been jailed yet, after 30+ years of practicing Christianity.

Even if this "discovery" ran counter to China's political objective, it certainly doesn't run counter to the United States' or Europe's, does it? So again, why hasn't this "discovery" made national headlines yet?

Do you? Do the authors of those websites? Do you even read or write Chinese? To even begin learning Chinese, we have to understand the fundamentals of it, such as the different methods of combining characters, what the radicals mean, what the compounds mean, why radicals represent meaning whereas some characters are to aid in pronunciation. I know I am by no means an expert in Chinese etymology, why did you think I cited a dictionary? The editors who put together the dictionary have already done the research. We would get nowhere if everyone had to do their own research and obtain a degree in EVERYTHING. Should I forget about other notions such as gravity and how it "works" since I obviously don't hold a degree in science? Incidentally, I am only 2 classes away from holding a degree in Chinese.

That's like asking if the rules regarding Greek and Latin roots today are any different than they were way back when.

By the way, no refutations on any of the discrepancies I pointed out?

In other news, I'd like to assert that zoology = the study of zoos, and none of you can prove me wrong (unless you hold a degree in English etymology)!

Is sarcasm persuasive or just an expression of hauteur?

All you have to do is check out Youtube. There are a lot of videos on Christian persecution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw9qxGD27-E

Here's a better video. You get to see Chinese architecture and the Great Wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuvEl...eature=related

None of this is supposed to be "persuasive." The sarcasm was to point out how ludicrous it is to disregard what someone says, even when s/he has cited from a reliable source, simply because s/he does not hold a degree in said subject.

I never meant to imply that Christian persecution did not or does not exist in China today. I know that it does. But that's like hearing about some of the hate crimes that occur here in the states and proclaiming, all Americans hate homosexuals! Homosexuals are persecuted in America everywhere, everyday! How many videos do you think I'll find on YouTube of Americans persecuting homosexuals? Persecuting minorities? Demonstrations of "white power!"? Right.

Well this is what you said:

"please refrain all judgement because you hold no authority in making those claims."

I don't need authority to bring up a matter available to the public through the news.

And I don't really need a degree to cite from a dictionary, do I?

lol, silly thread

Duty Calls http://xkcd.com/386/

It's a disease, really.

Lol...that was funny.

Man I feel stupid, I knew I should've googled "things splendour thinks" before I asked you.

asdhashdagsdggda

hint: before Buddha, "the Chinese people" had a bunch of different religions

it's been a while since i've seen such a solid ass whipping in debate

To csma: Thank you for taking the time to come into this thread and explain so thoroughly. As a guy with a minor in communications/linguistics, I appreciate it.

To those complaining that csma isn't a linguistics expert: Obviously not, he never claimed to be. He listed all his credentials (which, lets be honest, do outweigh anyone else that's commented so far) and showed the flaw in the logic/usage of the original site.

Does this mean that the site is 100% wrong? Maybe, maybe not. It does show, however, that the information and methodology is suspect at best and it would be wise to do significantly more research before claiming ancient Chinese points to the Bible.

The OP was making a point in line with an earlier discussion he had: that the Adam and Eve legend is a persistent one that is found throughout the world.

How did all these different ethnic groups claim origins that agree with the Adam and Eve account? Did all primitive people just happen to think identically? Sounds farfetched because the variations of religion that precede after the accounts pretty much indicate all the different groups throughout the world acted differently indicating they think differently yet they all have an identical religious source.

Holy smokes. I don't want to get overly snippy, but my belief is that you are wildly incorrect. Of course Judaism, Islam and Christianity all have similar origin stories (since they all trace their belief system back through Abraham), but beyond that, origin stories vary extremely widely.

This probably warrants a thread of its own. I could rattle on for ages about the variance among different creation myths, but as a baseline, start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth

Finding any non-Christian to say "all creation myths are similar" is nearly impossible, because well, it's not true.

Start one then but I'm not personally that interested in discussing it because I read a book a number of years back with archaeology and other finds and one of them that spoke about the prevalence of Adam and Eve like accounts in even the most remote places.

Oh btw what do you think the whole OT and God getting angry over idols is all about if you went to a religious college?

I pretty much ascribe all the pre-OT myth to the Nephilim and fallen angels.

God carved out a new people and said he was putting an end to all the old myths and he did it through his Son. We're suppose to be focusing on his son and not all the old myths he decided to do away with once and for all.

Splendour, every time one of your numerous airy claims is challenged, you immediately disown the statement by saying that you weren't really all that interested in the first place, or you were just making suggestions that you hadn't seriously thought about. Maybe you should start doing some actual research before you post another wondrous 'discovery'.

If you don't really believe what the book told you (which is probably a good thing), why post anything about it in the first place?

It also confuses me that you would see any similarity among creation or human/divine alienation myths from ancient civilisations as support for the Bible's myths specifically. There are plenty of other, much more likely explanations (even granting the premise that, e.g., Egyptian, Asian, Middle Eastern, South American and Greek myths are similar in non-superficial ways). For instance, perhaps there was a primordial set of myths that was the ancestor of other ancient myths, such as those of your God. The Bible could be a corrupted description of this original religion.

I... don't think I understand what you're asking here. I can't really summarize the whole of the Old Testament in one forum post. There's a lot of stuff in there.

I guess if I'd have to take a stab at it, I'd say that the OT is the story of Yahweh and the Jewish people relating with one another as Yahweh works to redeem and sanctify them. It is characterized, primarily, by Yahweh attempting to bestow blessings on the Isrealites, and the Israelites (mostly) screwing that up by taking it for granted.

In regards to idols and idol worship specifically, I'd say it went like this, typically:

God: You're my people, I'm your God.
Israelites: Yes.
God: I've demonstrated that I am, if not the only diety, then definitely the most powerful one.
Isaelites: Yep.
God: Like, a lot.
Israelites: Uh huh.
God: So, uh, explain that idol over there?
Israelites: But what have you done for us lately?
God: *facepalm*

Good going Junior. You misinterpreted my post.

I believed the book I read a few years ago.

As for the backing out of everything. I have more posts on the subject of religion then you've probably ever had thoughts in your head so prove where I backed out of everything. You go get the posts.

That fact that I ever qualify something or say I haven't thought about it is because its true and a type of intellectual honesty rare in forums.

I could boast and prance around like the typical insecure juvenile delinquent on here but I'm not and its not in character for me so why even do it?

Besides I wasn't arguing about myths in this thread I only stated my opinion as to why I think the OP posted it and its because he has studied something somewheres that says that you can find the Adam and Eve accounts all over the place.

God clearly in the OT though states over and over again that people have been pursuing false religions and phony idol gods and that he intended to do a new work to straighten the world out and give the world a chance to discard all the old phoniness. A chance to be redeemed. So what do some people do? They raise the old phoniness as an argument. Its not. Those are simply the Nephilim and fallen angel and stupid deluded men's counterfeits that God was trying to get rid of.

God held up Christ on the Cross and said..."Hey World I Just Saved You Now Come Out of Your Sins Permanently"...only theres some moron in the back row saying what about Zeus.

starvingwriter82: You're very welcome.

mused01:



This,
and this:
QFT.

---
Oh, come on. We all know that if this idea about Chinese characters and the Bible held any merit at all, "old myths" would suddenly become the most important thing, ever.

Your bias is different from mine and your sources. That's about it and that's all we're arguing over bias. Because you're not a language expert.

Clearly some of the Chang Min people migrated from Israel in the House of Israel dispersion so I just don't find the OPs video to be farfetched.

If one migration happened then its pretty self evident an earlier one could have happened too. Even the American Indians are thought to have migrated across the Aleutians. So a little jump from the Garden of Eden in Iraq into China...no problem and quite easy for them to do.

But, the OPs video appears to dissect the language incorrectly, and then uses this incorrect dissection to make assertions. That seems... sub-optimal.

So, the conclusion is based on faulty language use, and even then arrives at a conclusion which is, at best, a half-truth, and more honestly, almost entirely false. This doesn't strike you as poor?

Also, I'm curious which book you read claiming similarity in all creation myths. I'd find it an interesting read.

I don't see the faultiness. I think language is very much a product of the time. That's why you have to struggle to read an Elizabethan Era play by Shakespeare. Also the OP video isn't the lone source of this idea. See my links for other sources. If you want to launch a case against that many sources then you need a true expert or two to actually break down the language of the time contextually against other documented usage of terms in the time being called into question.

You can't put a penny today against a penny of 4,000 years ago and say they're the same. Obv they're not.

The book I read was a huge compilation by a guy Halley. It had a lot of pictures and discussion of various events dealing with archaeology, the Great Flood, etc. It also mentioned the cross country prevalenence of very similar Adam and Eve accounts.

It may have been an earlier addition of this one a bible almanac:
http://www.amazon.com/Halleys-Bible-.../dp/0310402301