RLK, Jib, Splendour,

I asked this PoE/FreeWill question in two other threads but never got an answer:

"What is so [fundamentally] important about free will (if it even exists) that God can't touch it, even for one individual, like EVER?"

EDIT: I'll start a new thread if you guys would prefer.

It is not just that it is important, but that once free with is given it has to have certain restrictions to it that cannot be touched, otherwise it is not given at all.

If God gave us free will, but revoked it every time that we misused it, then did he really give it in the first place?

He didn't say "every time." God could revoke only in cases in which the consequences would be extreme.

Why not though?

Decided to start a new thread to avoid derailment:

"What is so [fundamentally/intrinsically] important about free will (if it even exists) that God can't touch it, even for one individual, like EVER?"

I hate you!

Was starting a new thread on this and ready to come back into this one to tell Jib "Repeat your post in the new thread please. I have a reply but would rather continue the convo there." and then you come in and post the exact reply I was going to post. (not like the reply was all that original or anything though)

Anyway, can you use your m(G)odly powers to move/copy Jib and your posts to that other thread? We'll let your reply be the "community" reply to his post.

because its atoms and

uhhh....

spins

i dont know

is not free will just an illusion of the mind?

To give someone freewill is the most loving thing God can do. Freewill is very loving and fair. Within freewill you have great freedom. God is faithfull to His Word, so if He gives freewill which He did He cannot override it because He will not break His own Word. With freewill you can choose to believe or not to believe.

If you had children would you rather them say I LOVE YOU DADDY out of freewill or because they had to? God wants people to love Him back not because they have to but because the want to out of their own freewill, He does not want robots.

It makes you the master of your own future. So no excuses.

Pletho

also, we have to ignore parts of the bible where god does in fact intervene in peoples free will. like Exodus 10:1 "And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go in unto Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might show these My signs in the midst of them;"

i have no doubts that this can be weasled out of somehow. but for nonbelievers, this certainly looks like god treading on a person free will. (we're all idiots that dont understand context though.)

Why is this the most loving thing that can be done?

this is rather ironic. "you have the choice to love me. its totally up to you. but...ps, if you dont, you'll burn in hell forever."

gimme a break. we have as much choice to love him as Muslims have to be apostates.

edit: also, very few human fathers would threaten the child with condemnation if he didnt love him. and the ones that do we consider psychopaths. god cant even match up to a human father.

Yes. Wouldn't it be *more loving* if he did not give us the choice to reject him and burn in hell forever? Not for his sake but for ours.

No, it would be more loving if hell never existed

It still is a choice, and you wont burn in hell if you do not?

Maybe you were taught that lie at some crazy mainstream religous church?

You just will not have eternal life if you do not carry out Romans 10:9,10.

You didn't get to choose to come into this world BUT you do get a choice to decide how you live it, and what happens after this life?

Most of the atheist on here have very, very wrong concepts and ideas of God and the bible. I think it is because alot of atheist on here have had religous parents who DID NOT know the truth and said and did some pretty stupid things and made there kids go to church.

The majority of every atheist on this forum who talks bad and bout God or the bible do so from a very ignorant position, they do not really know what they hate about God or the bible, they have heard and see error and because of that they rightfully. logically shouldn't believe.

But it has so damaged and jadded them that they will not let down their gaurd to actually hear the truth.

Pletho

It does not exist, that is the whole point, what you believe and have heard is a lie. Biblically hell means something completely different than what you all think. There is no fiery furnace, no horned devil with a pitchfork! LOL! This is all a big lie.

Pletho

Do you like the freedom to be able to choose? Would you like to be controlled? WOuld you like to have no choice in life at all?

Pletho

Well, sure. Wouldn't it be best if we were created in heaven rather than on this planet? Earth appears to be some place where God experiments with people prior to eternally judging them.

Wouldn't the bible in and of itself interfere with our and free will by influencing our decisions of what is right and wrong.

i knew this was how you'd respond, and i almost edited my post before you could respond. burn in hell, be eternally separated, not have everlasting life, whatever. the point was that you have a choice between loving him and badness. love him or die! its really not much of a choice.

as for the "ignorant position..." please reserve these comments for atheists who dont know the bible. ive been reading this book for decades, and will continue to do so.

nah

Okay, what does it mean then? Do you think eternal life with God is definitely superior to death in that not having eternal life is a punishment of some form? If you do then it doesn't particularly matter what the exact concept of hell means, only that the alternative to eternal life with God is inferior. How am I wrong and if I'm not all the points stand...

when i say "burn in hell" what i mean is being eternally separated from god. youre just interpreting things wrong. lol

The whole point is that God wanted to have spiritual children that would choose to love him, not be created to love him like a robot....

Oh if you only had the time and desire to really learn how it all fits together, it would really make since and blow your mind. You guys NEVER give me a chance to truly explain it all. You expect me to do this is a forum and a few words. What a joke.

The problem is you all like to complain to much and aren't really that seriously interested in knowing truth or you would do what it takes to get it. You may think I do not know my head fom a whole in the ground, and thats fine by me, but I am here to tell you that I do know the purpose of life, the why's and wherefore's, I know them more accurately than ANYONE on this forum including every Christian that has posted a post on here.

I do not care if they get upset, the truth is the truth. I am not boasting or bragging I am being honest. I am not lying. So think what you will. If a man can really do what he says he can do then it is not cocky but confident.

Pletho

What is free will for? So you can choose, right?

Well you have to have choices in order to choose, right? That is pretty simple I think....

Pletho

superb evasion.