Of course, but that statement could also be made of many atheists in many countries at this time.

Prove that dialectical materialism wasn't the product of Marx's atheism.

Atheists like their explanations and dialectical materialism is the explanation that Marx came up with to fill the void that his atheistic worldview created.

Since there's no God in charge in his worldview he substituted the state as in charge.

Marx is similar to a lot of atheist posters on here. He has an alternative explanation for everything. But his political ideas are traceable directly to him through his writings and his political views didn't form in a vacuum free of his atheism. Ideas form in human minds. When you can prove Karl Marx compartmentalized his atheism ideas away from his political and economic ones you can exonerate atheism. Not before. Since ideas flow freely across minds I don't see you being able to prove that, do you?

Ah, the classic shifting of the burden of proof. I'm afraid the ball is in your court on this one.

Exactly. You seem to have completely glossed over my explanation so I'll summarize. You have two basic options: 1) accept a religion and derive your worldview, philosophy and morality from it, 2) be an atheist/agnostic atheist and seek your worldview elsewhere. It is at this point that you seem to draw a causative link where there is none. You could certainly go down an authoritarian, evil, adversarial belief system. Or, you could, like most atheists I know, go down a path that respects individual rights and liberties and abhors authoritarians of all varieties, both religious and nonreligious.

Atheism has no set of beliefs. What you still haven't, and can't demonstrate, is that atheists are any more likely to be enticed by this path than any other, or any more likely than religious followers to be authoritarians and/or evil.

This isn't really accurate, but regardless, so what?

Huh? There are no atheism ideas. His ideas are a product of the worldview he developed upon becoming an atheist. Being an atheist doesn't require you, nor is it more likely to lead, to go down the road he went. I fail to see your problem in understanding this since there are millions of us who abhor authoritarianism. The logical progression you are attempting to make is: become atheist -> pursue authoritarian government -> attempt to eradicate religion. This fails on its face because atheism has no such imperative.

So because an atheist has no god or no bible to follow, he's got no chance to know right and wrong? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but that's what it sounds like some of your ate trying to get at. If that's the case its the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. Because I don't believe in god I don't know its wrong to stab someone, or its wrong to steal, or cheat on my girlfriend or wife?

No one intelligent believes that. There are tons of philosophical methods to arrive at good and evil that don't require a god.

Nah, the ball's not in my court.

The ball will forever be in Marx's.

Atheism and communism were both in his head weren't they?

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing ever said in this forum.

....and that's saying something.

This doesn't make sense as you're the one making an assertion about his thought process, an assertion you haven't demonstrated.

Atheism and my fondness for pizza are both in my head. Does this mean my atheism controls my love for pizza?

Let's try a thought experiment. You meet me on the street and in our initial conversation, you learn that I'm an agnostic atheist. Knowing nothing else about me, what can you conclude about my likely philosophical beliefs?

You meet me on the street and learn that I'm a devout Catholic. What can you conclude about my likely philosophical beliefs?

CD, you're wasting your time, although I appreciate the effort. You'd be better off trying to figure out why Minority Report doesn't make sense.

I [FYP].


There have been (and will be) many others of vomit quality. In some defense for RGT, there have been some eloquent and substantial quality posts that reflect deep thought, consideration, and intelligence. Unfortunately those types of posts and posters are rare.

-Zeno

She's not wrong.

Marx himself said that communism and religion were irreconcilable.

He developed the game to be played on the godless ball-field, so to say.

Not sure if anybody is even being serious here.

I am an Atheists please tell me what my political views are.

A little off-topic but you should know that prediction is not a requirement in faith-based belief, and faith-driven reasoning. The goal is to draw relationships between variables and automatically assume the existence of a significant correlation. The strength of this correlation is usually proportional to the degree of conformity between the proposed relationship, and one's related beliefs. The more alignment/conformity between the proposed relationship and one's related beliefs, the stronger the implied correlation. Whether the relationship is causal or not, and whether there is any evidence for such a relationship (absent of their own experience or interpretation) is also irrelevant.

If you don't know VD just say so. I am obviously communist. ldo

Splendour addicts, this book can change your life.

I don't see where your understanding is lacking. The simple statement that atheism and communism were "both in his head" is technically correct. It's the insistence that the atheism somehow drove the communism that is insupportable. Atheism is not a belief or philosophical system, apart from the fact that you've decided to live as if there is no god.

Once you reach that point, there are any number of ways one can proceed. Whatever philosophical or political views you take from then on are not driven by your atheism, they're driven by the philosophies you incorporate. Some atheists seek to eradicate religion. This is not driven by atheism, however, as there is nothing about being an atheist which requires you to take an interest in what others believe. Not one person has demonstrated a causal link between atheism and authoritarian, anti-religious communism.

The simple thought experiment I layer out should make it incredibly clear why this stance does not hold up under scrutiny. Can you demonstrate statistically that an atheist is any more likely to end up an authoritarian, anti-religious communist than any other philosophy?

What exactly are we supposed to say? Ah, Stalin was a disgrace and embarrassment to all atheists, we apologize on his behalf? I could say this, but it would have no more meaning than me apologizing for someone who shares a belief with me that evolution is the most likely mechanism by which the world has developed its diversity of life then goes on to kill 6 million people who don't believe in evolution.

It's not accurate to say Marx was hostile to religion. Engels wrote that religion would wither and die of it's own accord in a socialist society. There would be no need to ban or outlaw religion.

As human history began in a profound sense, for the first time, religion would soon be forgotten.

I wouldn't even go that far. You could be an atheist but live as if was a god. Atheism is a single position on a single question. There' a spectrum from weak to strong atheism, but in the purest sense, all it is is a lack of belief. It tells you nothing about how to live your life.

+1

Whats the difference between living as if a deist God exists and living as if one doesn't.

Sure i live as though Yahweh doesn't exist. But how do i live as though some non defined God does not exist. Its all vary confusing.

Which version of a Deist god? While I consider myself a Deist, it's the in the loosest sense of the word. Many would say I am an atheist, since I hold no belief in a specific deity. I do not worship any god.

If there is a general principle I live by, it would be that of Marcus Aurelius:

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

Probably doesn't affect your behavior really. For me, it's more like I'm just aware I don't acknowledge a creative deity, don't expect an afterlife, derive my philosophies from human-based logic, and don't believe any being takes a cosmic interest in my existence.

Accept for the first one i dont see the difference between you and a deist.

Atheism is like all religions. An implanted thought to put barriers on your mind and keep you from seeing the truth.