I left just before my 22nd birthday, and I'm glad I did.

Ask away.

Shalom!

Thanks for your posts in the thread about your personal history.

1) What were the seven most significant ideas/beliefs you were taught by the Jehovah's Witnesses and when did you begin to disbelieve these and do you still believe in some of them?

2) How did your upbringing ( as a "Jehovah's Witness" ) affect your outlook on the world even to this day and how are you trying to overcome your background or upbringing?

3) What were your views when you were growing up ( if any ) of Jews?

I look forward to your answers and thanks in advance.

How much of your family are currently Jehovah's Witnesses and does the fact that you're no longer religious cause a strain on your family relationships?

(Great thread idea btw)

The thread was the idea of one of the posters in another thread, and it seemed like a good way to educate people on what really goes on inside the Watchtower.

I'm actually about to head to my weekly home game, so I don't have time for a lot of lengthy responses, but I think I can answer Mangler's #3 pretty easily.

I didn't really have any view of Jews. I never heard any racial bigotry from the Watchtower toward any group. That is one of the positives of growing up this way, was that I was taught that being racist is wrong, and that we are all people.

As to Jews specifically, I never understood up through high school why so many people disliked them, but then again I also never had many dealings with Jewish people either. I grew up in the midwest, where Taco Bell is considered exotic cuisine, so you rarely run into large groups of other cultures like you do in New York or San Francisco. Even when I heard about the whole Christ-killing thing, the idea of holding a whole race accountable for what a few of them did 2,000 years ago never made any sense to me.

No offense, but why did it take you so long to leave?

What was the single most valuable life lesson you took from your experience with the religion?

What is the single fondest memory you have related to Jehova's Witnesses?

Did you ever go door to door for JW? How were you received?

To what do you attribute your learning to analyze independently? Does JW teach a form of that, or is it all just memorize what came this week from the central office?

My theory is high IQ.

I'm back from the game (Won $70 )

1) That is a tough question. I will try to list as many of the big ones as I can.

A) Evolution is wrong and a tool of the devil

Even before I was old enough to really understand the theory of evolution, I was told it was a lie from Satan and his world to mislead people. At face value, this seemed plausible, because the version of evolution I was told was something involving complete random chance. I was given the example of the tornado coming through a scrapyard and assembling an airplane, etc. This seemed at the time to be a good example. What I didn't realize at the time was that the actual theory was more about constant change at the smallest levels. (I can't say that I can explain it as well as others, but I know enough about it that it makes more sense to me the more I learn about our own biology and nature in general.)

As I've said in the other thread, my mother (attempted to) censor everything I read, with little success. I remember one time I bought a book on music's effect on the brain, my mother picked it up and scanned through it quickly. Spotting the word 'evolution' on a page midway through the book, she scolded me for not being more careful in my reading selection.

I read the book anyway.

B) Competition (Or the lack thereof)

Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that competitive sports, and competition in general are to be avoided completely. They base this on several verses which I cannot remember at the moment, which basically say that someone trying to be better than someone else is taking glory for themselves at the expense of Jehovah. All glory is to go to God.

This never sat well with my personality, as I loved the thrill of competition from the moment I was born. Growing up with two younger brothers, we were discouraged from wrestling or playing too rough with one another. I resent very much the feminine way me and my brothers were raised, with my father much too whipped to step in and tell my mother to lighten up a bit.

As I've said before, I love football, and it's what I want to do with the rest of my life. This did not go over well with the elders in the congregation, and I can remember many discussions with them about the 'dangers' of a competitive spirit. One man even told me that when playing basketball, he didn't even keep score, so as to avoid someone feeling superior to someone else. I told him right then and there that such a thing sounded incredibly stupid and childish to me. He did not take it well.

C) No Politics

In the New Testament, Jesus tells Pilate that his kingdom is no part of this world. Jehovah's Witnesses take this passages and those similar to it to the Nth degree, by even counseling the young ones in the congregation to avoid class elections, so as not to take part in the democratic process. The official doctrine of the Watchtower is that a Theocracy is superior to a democracy/ republic, and taking part in the election process would equal an endorsement of man's governments over God.

I began listening to a lot talk radio in middle school, one because the hosts were often entertaining to me, and two because I agreed with them on a lot of things. I started to voice my opinion on a lot of topics that involved politics, and this was not received well by many in the congregation.

One thing that really annoyed me about this was that it seemed to me every time I got in a philosophical debate with anyone about anything related to politics or current events, once I had painted them into a corner, they would fall back on the old God excuse. "Well it doesn't matter because Jehovah is going to take care of that problem anyway." I really got tired of people using this crutch when they had nowhere else to go.

Right now I would say I am very politically active, as I was totally behind Ron Paul this past year. I like Gary Johnson, but he is much less electable than Paul was.

D) Bible History and Prophecy

One of the cornerstones of the Watchtower beliefs is that the date of 1914 signaled the beginning of the end of this system of things. According to those at the top, Jesus had been crowned king in heaven, kicked Satan out of heaven down to the earth, which is why WW1 broke out, and why the Earth has been in an almost constant state of war ever since.

(You can read the official statement on 1914 and the reasons why this date is so important by clicking this link.)

The problem with this of course is that every credible scholar by now agrees that the date used for the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians (607 BCE) is 30 years off, making the correct date 587 BCE. Asking questions about this doctrine, and asking for proof about why they stick to this date is one of the quickest ways to get yourself excommunicated (or 'disfellowshipped' as it is known to the witnesses).

The more I learned about history, the more I recognized the cracks in the official Bible account. I was stunned to find that in fact there is almost zero evidence for the Exodus account of Moses and the Israelites, and that historians have found organized cities that predate the official Bible chronology. In a way, I have the fundamentalist Christian guy in my world history class for showing me how ridiculous I sounded, by continually arguing with the professor at every turn, and trying to disprove carbon dating, etc.

To me, historical accuracy and prophecy was the foundation of my beliefs. Once they started to crumble, it was only a matter of time before the whole thing collapsed.

E) Paradise Lost

I always had trouble with the story of Adam and Eve, for many reasons. First of all, it really seemed like a pointless (and dickish) gesture by God to put a tree in the middle of the garden that they were not allowed to eat. Not to mention I struggled with the idea of me paying for the sins of someone thousands of years ago.

The biggest thing though was that Adam and Eve were punished for trying to acquire knowledge of good and bad. Why would God want to keep such knowledge from humans? What was there to hide? Why would he put it there and not allow us to see it? At the time I chalked it up to God working in mysterious ways, even though I wasn't really comfortable with the implications of an anti-intellectual God. I just figured it wasn't something I was supposed to understand.

Now I know of course why this didn't make any sense to me, it's because it is inherently illogical.

There are other teachings, but for now these are the biggest ones that stick out to me.

2) I would say one of the biggest things was that a Biblical upbringing forced me to look at everything in black and white, and this included people.

The organization encourages people to only associate with those who are "zealous" in their worship, and what this does is create an atmosphere where everyone is constantly being judged. I will say that compared to other stories of JWs in other places, where I grew up was pretty light by comparison.

I wasn't really capable of seeing people for what they are, very complex creatures with good and bad qualities. There are very few people who are totally bad, most people are just imperfect. This is something I had to learn, because for a while I held people to a very high standard of behavior in social situations. I hope I'm making sense with this.

Nearly everyone on my mother's side of the family is a JW, and as part of my excommunication, they are forbidden to speak to me except in cases of extreme family emergencies. The idea is that this will force the wrongdoer to realize what he has left behind, and at the same time keep the congregation free from worldly influence.

I have spoken to my mother once on the phone in the past year. I just wanted to contact her and let her know I was doing fine.

The beginning of the conversation went exactly like this:

HER: "Who is this?"

ME: "It's me, (My first name)"

HER: (Long silence...) "Can I help you?"

In that moment I was enraged at her, but in my many moments of clarity, I honestly pity her and my family, because they are victims of brainwashing just like me. They are wasting precious years of their lives in something that will never give anything back to them.

I love my family, and I hope they come to their senses, but I am unaware of any way to get them to clear their mind. I have pretty much made peace at this point with the fact that they are a lost cause, and that I had better move on with my life.

It sounds terrible, and it is hard sometimes, but I am lucky to have a great support system of non-witness friends who were there for me when I needed them.

Part of the reason it took so long was that until just before my 22nd birthday, I was never really forced to make a major decision about my faith, choosing between my religion and something else.

I will talk more about this in part 3 of my story in the other thread, but there came a moment when two elders came to my house, had a talk with me and told me in no uncertain terms that if I went to college I would no longer be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was extremely upset with this, because I looked at it as a form of blackmail, and I was really tired of being controlled in this way. At this point, even though I hated it, even though I wanted it to not be true, I still believed in my heart of hearts that JW's had the truth.

By this point, I had stopped going to meetings almost completely, and my mother gave me an ultimatum. If I wasn't going to attend the meetings, I was no longer welcome in that house. The funny part about this was that it wasn't even her house. At the moment, we were living with her parents, and she was unemployed. Again.

I looked at my choices. I could stay there, remain poor, controlled, and live in a hostile environment (My grandparents fought constantly, they hate each other), or I could take the risk of going against what I believed to be the truth, go to college, and (from my point of view at the time) spend my final years before Armageddon doing what I loved instead of wasting away emotionally and mentally in this pit of depression.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in an immortal soul, so I was not worried about eternal torment in hell. I just figured if I was lucky I would get through college, maybe get 10 good years before the world ended to live the way I wanted to live, and then I would die.

I love American History, and at that moment I was reminded of Patrick Henry's famous quote, "Give me liberty or give me death!" I was convinced I was signing my own death warrant, that I was rebelling against God himself, but at that moment I believed that such a God was evil, and that I would not waste another moment serving him.

I would say the most valuable life lesson I took from it all would be to question everything. Never take for granted what you hear from the so called experts and authorities to be true. Think for yourself, investigate, ask questions, be curious.

It's ironic that in the age of C-SPAN we have more uninformed voters than ever before. Nobody watches it because the political process is made to look boring and uninteresting. The JW's succeeded in making the Bible so boring for me that I just took their word on it. Big mistake.

The best memory I have? Freshman year of high school, after a day long special lecture session, we had the entire family out to eat at a fantastic Italian restaurant for dinner. Though no one could have guessed at the time, it was the last time we would all be together as a family. A couple of my cousins were disfellowshipped, though one returned, and the other is living with her mother right now trying to make it back.

Jesus ****ing Christ. I cannot fathom how someone could choose their religion over their own child. I kind of hope Alter2ego drops in to see the damage that the Jehovah's Witness doctrines can cause.

Wait...what!? Part 3 needs to get here...it's gettin' good!

I think the OP has the same problem that atheists like to stick to theists.

How can the OP debunk all religions off of one religion?

Did he experience all religions?

How does he know he can't encounter true religion outside of the JWs?

Why did he substitute science for religion if like most atheists he claims we can't distinguish between religions.

He never established the true religion but that gets him a free pass to substitute science in it's place?

I think he never learned he was suppose to identify with God from the JWs so he just substituted something he does identify with: science.

Easy there Splenda, I'm getting to that in part 3 of my story later on tonight. I'm not dumb enough to believe that just because the JWs weren't the true religion that means every one of them are crap. I had a huge internal search about that for a while. Just sit tight and I'll explain.

You think the search is over?

You're lucky you had the JWs even if their teaching on the Trinity is false.

At least they put you within reach of the bible.

Most people don't even know that's the place to look to find God.

God has no problem with you researching into Him but He does have a problem when people refuse to listen to Him personally.

I'm at work right now and don't have time for long posts, but basically, yes, the search is over. There is not a single religion out there that I have found that hasn't ******ed human civilization in one way or another, there isn't one religion who doesn't have people ready to kill the non-believers around them, there isn't one religion that deals exclusively in logic and reason over myth and superstition.

As to the Bible itself, I'm a prisoner of what I know about it. I know for example that the reason why we have four gospels in the New Testament is because one scholar decided that just like the four elements and four directions of the wind, there should be four main books. I also know that early manuscripts suffered from an enormous amount of editing, so much so that we have no way of knowing what the originals looked like. I also know that the number of historical inaccuracies in the Bible is too long to list here. I know that one of the founding texts of Christianity has been lost for centuries, probably never to be found again (Q Document).

This doesn't sound like the work of an all powerful god to me, sounds more like the work of humans who want to control people by means of a book that no one, not even scholars inside any major sect can agree on what they mean.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll just continue to live my life as a good person and take my chances that I'm wrong. I have a feeling that's a +EV move in the long run.

You can harden yourself on God's way or you can harden yourself on the anti-god's way. Either way....your choice.

Let me rephrase my question, because you've half answered it -- your lively mind took you away.

But were there any influences besides your own curiosity and dissatisfaction? Teachers who encouraged an ethic of inquiry?

Great read so far in both threads. I believe you weren't old enough but what impact, if any, did the 1975 failed prediction of the end of the world have on your family, or was it never mentioned etc. I lived next to a JW church as a kid and remember that attendance soared as the date approached then fell to probably 1/10 of normal for a good while afterward.

Also concerning this: "Do not harden your hearts as they did when they provoked me during the time of testing in the wilderness." Hebrews 3:8

I offer this: "But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and just as the LORD had predicted to Moses, Pharaoh refused to listen." Exodus 9:12

Having JWs come to my door was one of the highlights of my time at university.

It was great when they finally decided to give up to be timidly offered one of their many pamphlets. Which, by the way are quite beautiful examples of strawman arguments.

I love how the one critiquing evolution basically cites random 'scientists' which say there is a flaw or unknown in the 'theory' and then invite the reader to infer that because a 'scientist' somewhere disagrees with a part of evolution, this proves that God did it.

Since you were already going door to door, did you ever sell Amway products at the same time?

What should someone say or do to get JW's to put them on a do not call list?

Isn't this inconsistent with the 144k who are gonna sit with Jesus?

On an unrelated note, how common is it for members to leave JW and how did you feel about leavers when you were still a member?

How often did new recruits join JW?

Yes, I went literally to thousands of doors and spoke to many different people.

The responses varied from polite non-interest, to "get the hell of my property", to "Sure, I'll read those magazines." You'd be surprised at how many people actually took the magazines. Of the people who answered the door, I'd say I usually had at least a 33% success rate. How many of those people just took them so I would leave, I don't know.

I could write a book on all the different experiences I had while going door to door, but one of my favorite moments had to have been when I was 17 or 18. It was myself and a close friend of mine who was about my age went to a door. I knocked, and a woman in her late 30's to early 40's answered. She looked like she did not want to talk, but I started into my prepared presentation anyway. When I asked her if she would be interested in taking the magazines, she looked annoyed and said angrily and sarcastically, "No! We worship Satan in this house!" and slammed the door in our faces.

The woman had to have heard my friend and I laughing loudly outside as we walked away, because she was obviously just trying to get rid of us and get back to what she was doing. Some other people in our group did not find this funny at all, but I couldn't help but laugh.