also, I could argue that self is in the sperm and the egg

Anything you want...you're only limited by your imagination and your fear...and both are limitless.

Your imagination invents ways to overcome your fear...this is what I was trying to say when I said that stoning is not inherently immoral...nothing is inherently immoral because they are all products of our imagination...meant to set a path that will teach us to overcome our fear.

I do not want anything once I am dead. The point was is that whatever you define, there is always something outside of it.

hmmm, this is true but its my nature to disagree. any word is created by imagination, same goes for anything, immoral is just a word that doesn't really mean anything. like self. however, there is creation and destruction behind words, destroying a childs sand castle would be seen as immoral by the baby, you didn't create the sandcastle, so you have no right to destroy it.

If you do not want anything when you are dead then you will get what you want. You will simply no longer be a part of my world. You will reside entirely in a world of your own creation. I'll miss you.

A baby sees nothing as immoral except those conceptions which were learned in a previous life. Do you know his mind?

Lol you cannot be more wrong. What I am talking is pure free life. Life without concept of you. Life without denying but with accepting everything. You cannot see it unless you discover, that everything that is protecting you from being free is your own self.

lol... that is a baffling response. How can I want something when I am dead? Are you saying that suicide bombers are going to get their virgins?

regardless of how they were learned, If you destroy something which somebody else created, they will find it immoral towards them. Same goes for if you tied someone up and constricted their freedom. This is why its a thin line walking this path of thought. Everybody is self aware to differing extents.

I have thought like you before. It urged me to go lie in the snow until my body passed away. How is that freedom, freedom is knowing that I could do that if I desired, freedom is following your desire uninhibited whilst choosing. I know about freedom, and I do stop myself from being free. You are not taking into account restrictions governed by law and also strength. It takes alot of strength to be completely apathetic. No matter what you do you are doing it based upon a desire. Desire defines life in a way.

I = Everything within my body that is represented to you, by me.

see also me


** I can't wait for you to call me a liar or coward (again). Or is it going to be your usual "you don't exist" (again)?

The anticipation is driving I crazy!

You know nothing about freedom. You were never ever where I am now. Not even close. You write here only pure and absolut bulls... You are coward. That is for sure. Look at whatever you write. It cannot be more absurd. Just pure bulls.. And you think how great is that, and you keep posting it.

Mindfulness

Well, that's a relief. So often, the kind of hatred and vitriol that flows from your posts comes from someone who, despite their words, is actually clinging very tightly to their own self-image, which has become intimately tied to and dependent upon their own view of the truth. They are desperate for some kind of affirmation and approval, because if their view of the truth changes, then so must their self-image, which they are unwilling to let go of.

It's good to know that that's not you. It's good to know that you abuse and insult strangers on the internet out of compassion for their ignorance and a generous willingness to share the truth with them. That was Buddha's teaching style, right? Very effective.

Well, everyone has his own way. I know, that budha was enlightened, but did he liberate many others? There were many buthas around him? Maybe he would liberate more, if he would slap them in the face. He would probably do that to you anyway if he woul read your posts.

Your view of enlightenment is completely different to Buddha teachings. All you have claimed is that you don't like your ego and you recognise that you create it and its not real and everything is deterministic. With a little bit of 'I don't know where I am so therefore I am not real'. Clearly you are where you are, wherever that is.

Hakuin was a very earnest seeker in the Zen-tradition and one day had what he thought was an enlightenment experience. He went to his master Shoju and told him about his understanding. Shoju kicked Hakuin into the mud and the pouring rain, laughed at him and called him a "poor hole-dwelling devil". Hakuin increased his efforts. Hakuin attained deeper and deeper understanding, still everytime Hakuin would see Shoju, the master would only laugh at him and call him a "poor hole-dwelling devil". After it became clear that Hakuin is finally making progress, Shoju quit laughing, but he never sanctioned Hakuin's understanding. It was only after Shoju's death that Hakuin finally attained enlightenment. Later Hakuin said: "Shoju was too kind to me in those days."

Zen master Gutei raised his finger whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When anyone asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy would raise his finger. Gutei heard about the boy's mischief. He seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and ran away. Gutei called and stopped him. When the boy turned his head to Gutei, Gutei raised up his own finger. In that instant the boy was enlightened.

There are many more stories from buddhist tradition to be told that use insults and even violence as a means of teaching. It is never personal. In the context of no-self realization, what you perceive as an insult and abuse is one of the most effective teaching techniques.

What I'm saying...is that suicide bombers know either know the virgin thing is a parable...or yes, they'll get them.

You can never destroy anything I create...you can just alter it's form...you can re-create...

There is no life...without you.

There is only life without you.

Hey, like I said, I'm glad I was wrong about you. Before you cleared things up, here's what I was thinking:

You don't say to yourself, "I do not exist." You say to yourself, "I am the one who discovered that I don't exist." And you are proud of that. That is your self-image. You need it. You cling to it. You fear losing it. And everyone who challenges you is a threat to your self-image. So you fill your heart with anger and frustration as you lash out with violent words into the anonymity of cyberspace. You belittle others and preach your superior wisdom by telling people that they were never ever where you are now, not even close. You are filled with selfish pride, but you actually fear the loss of your self-image as the great enlightened one. You are a slave to this fear, and a slave to this self-image. You are not liberated.

And all the while, you are able to protect yourself from seeing this glaring truth by identifying yourself as being like those teachers from the Zen traditions that kicked and beat their students into enlightenment. But you are not insulting others to teach them. You are insulting them in a futile effort to protect your self-identity, which you hypocritically cling to with great tenacity.

That was the ruthless truth as I saw it.

I can only lead you to water....if you ain't thirsty that's just fine.

Cheers,
No, you certainly wont, as a matter of fact most people that get liberated tend not to bother pushing this to others, which is disappointing but hey what can you do? Ah theyll help out from time to time, or theyll send an old 'thanks for changing my life' message every now and again, but they will remain lazy and unhelpful. Some people have the passion for it, some dont. Everyone on RT gets over that.

Now if you see the truth, what could possibly happen is that you really want to help others, and they ACTUALLY DO CRACK IT, most people that log onto the that site crack it, why? because its not hard thats why.
Yes they may get a bit furious in the mean time, (not all of them by the way, as a matter of fact most of them are fine, its just when people start being dishonest and channeling their bull back to the other poster do they receive abuse) but as soon as they see it its like "Holy crap , all this time ive been against everyone here and everywhere and I didnt stop for a second to take a look at myself"

See the self aint there and your bull**** beliefs fall like a house of cards.

Someone last year came on with an agenda, a real agenda. He thought it was a complete scam (even though theres no money involved lol), he was on one mission , to prove them wrong, it was all about him, "Im right, they're wrong", it was all about feeding his ego and showing them up, then with one flash of honesty, and looking, it was like "click", and now he's the main moderator of the site, and pretty much runs it by himself at the moment.

Kinda funny one I think.

Nice. What if you just shut up and try to find true answers about who you are? Or you can post your bulls... in any topic you create. Name it: random bulls... I want to write. It will be hit.

No need to get defensive. After all...

You seem to have made a realization of a sort, ie. realizing that the ego is a construct built up over time and is not essentially the "real you".

However, it seems that you have traded one self-image with another. You have now created a new ego-identity for yourself, and are working/fighting very hard to protect that new construct.

Once a person/physical body truly becomes "enlightened", if there is such a thing, they say nothing. There are many reasons for this. But they do not try to enlighten others.

Everything unfolds in its own way, and in its own time. There is a time and a space for everything. All things move at their own pace. Your ego, has grown beyond the boundaries of your self. I believe you need to take a step back, so that you may take two steps forward.

That is not exactly true....it's a trap designed to keep enlightenment (power) within the hands of a few when it is the domain of all...