This is a pretty stupid thing to say, tbh.

Because they vote?

There's a few popular christians sects knocking about who believe in evolution but that god started the ball rolling with a fair idea where it might roll (or some variation thereof)

Right, another aspect. Numbers 1 and 2 mandate a Darwinian approach which is what the fight is about. Many people do not believe in the DNA, amino acid, gene, mollusk, monkey, man flight of fancy and so numbers 1 and 2 cannot be dealt with. Even if you're the man on the street 1 and 2 imply monkey-man and many aren't buying it. The G-word was tricky in 1 and 2.

Number 3 is interesting in that our literature in the Bible and even our scientific literature gives little understanding to the near by evolution of Man. The only picture I've ever seen is the cave man in loin cloth which one can see in the "Planet Earth ?" of Disney World. The calculation of 10,000 years I would guess is the result of counting the generations of Man in the Bible and using our present idea of generations of so many years. The Bible is a great work but can be transgressed by attempting to use our present perspectives especially of measure and number in its understanding. This, in one perspective, gets back to most of those thinkers on humanity have a hard time seeing the past as different because of an nearly unconscious level of fear he states" he's a biped and will always be a biped".

That there is an evolution involved with Man is transparently apparent but like many things the work is in the detail.

Madnak do you still have those links showing that religiosity correlates with lower intelligence? I used to have them in my favorites but my old computer crashed.

If we can use our present understanding of measure and number to deviate from what the bible says then why not use our present understanding of science and evolution as well?

The fossil records is in remarkable agreement with the theory of evolution. A fossil being created is almost an unbelievably rare occurrence, but it does happen. Do to their scarcity, we could not possibly expect to find a continuous record connecting every modern day species with a common ancestor. Every fossil we have found, however, does fit somewhere on this "tree". If you choose to believe something else then you either do not understand or are ignoring the evidence. The other option is to believe the bible on faith but that has got to mean believing it literally, which means the Earth is under 10,000 years old (and yes this is due to the very thorough genealogy given in the bible). I just cannot understand how someone could believe something else unless they are randomly picking sentences from the bible to believe.

I lost them too, but I found it again.

Note the R² of 0.86 and based on General Social Survey data (ie large reliable sample, nothing to do with religion so no bias, etc).

Its interesting that if these stats are true they lend credence to the word of the bible about God honoring humble men and foolishness.

certainly not humble more like boundless arrogance, but who would have guessed the stupid would believe in a god that favours the stupid.

I don't know about arrogant. Deluded perhaps.

Deluded into believing they're so special.

Exactly.

With me its not an either/or. I respect the Bible but do not use it to attempt to debunk modern Darwinian evolution. I see Darwin as not a scientific fact and in truth a scientific fallacy, fossil remains notwithstanding. I have written many posts( if you're interested search is available) to the consideration of thought forms in Darwinian evolution;also a consideration of the fallacy that an empirical science has never been displayed an example in nature in which life comes from inorganic matter.

The "evidence" you speak of is a reasoned judgment which at base is a self fulfilling prophesy and to me is no more than the "flavor of the month". The idea that the Bible or Science must be considered in an absolutist sense is meaningless. The idea that one shouldn't "pick and choose" from the Bible is again ridiculous as there are difficult and clearer considerations in the Bible and Science also which call for my active intelligence. If not me to sift out what I can make of these areas then who?? Is there a window where I can gain this insight and even if there is, is it not incumbent upon me to work through this for my own development which aids not only me but possibly others? I deny the "dead rock" theory of knowledge which stultifies into the dogmas of religion and science both. Actually I'm not speaking against "dogma" as such but the thoughts that one must bow in a fatalistic sense to this higher power but am not allowed to think about it.

Try this: http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.h...=9781855841369

The evolutionary sense will become apparent in the above.

Thanx madnak. Duly added to my favorites. Hopefully my new porno machine won't break down any time soon.

however you come to believe you're really special you still believe it and that's arrogance not humility.

so once again you show that if you want to, you can use stats to pervert the truth. these types of studies are a joke. here is a nice link that you can go to that shows why studies like this are flawed.

CLICK HERE

Its "interesting" that you are so quick to spin it this way and dont realize how damning that Bible assertion is.

You CANNOT be serious? If Sklansky ever needed a case study to support his position that when you have absolutely no clue wtf you are talking about you should just find the nearest expert and do what he says, that studies name is Jibninjas.

I prefer to think of them as insufferably obtuse. But I see your point.

you are a joke. do you actually think on your own, or just regurgitate whatever some guy off the street that hates christians tells you.

just pathetic.

We don't particularly expect the stupid to agree that they are stupid but would you agree with the central point which is that:

If a large proportion are stupid and their views carry the same weight as the non-stupid then there's cause to be concerned. e.g we should be concerned about stupid people determining important policies like when to go to war?

Sklansky isnt just some guy off the street, and I dont think he hates Christians.

Do you have someone else in mind who walks the streets telling people that Jibninjas has no idea wtf he is talking about re: evolution or statistics? As far as I can tell I came up with that idea on my own, although it doesnt take large amounts of insight to come to the same conclusion. Its possible I overheard it somewhere.

Jibninjas, I asked before and you didnt answer, do you have any training in statistics or mathematical modelling? Anything like that? Because if not, I would strongly recommend you work through an elementary stats textbook - the maths isnt hard, though the concepts can take a bit of getting used to. The rewards are great, in my opinion.

That link is an extremely poor rebuttal of the point (the graphs he posts dont even say what he says they say). There are studies which control for country (an IQ test focussing on just people in the US, for example like the one madnak likes posting to, I believe.) and it is a statistical fact that there is a negative correlation between IQ and religiosity. Claiming it doesnt exist is a very poor defense - it's demonstrable and incontrovertible. Far better, in my opinion, to explain the phenomenon.

I personally dont care, however if I was going to address the correlation I reckon there are three or four easy ways to attack the implied claim that we should "go with the smart guys" and reject religion. Off the top of my head, one would be (from a fundamentalist christian point of view, though not a very charismatic one...):

The bible says you cant rely solely on deductive reasoning to discover the truth of God's existence - you have trust god at some point and take a leap of faith.
Smart people are more likely to think they can "deduce their way to truth". It's what works for them usually and so they are in the habit of only trusting those assertions which can be logically justified and rejecting anything else.
The bible says you cant do that - it's never going to work.

Therefore - dumb people will be more likely to describe themselves as religious than smart people - when it comes to getting this question right, there is a bias towards dumb people.

Also, it takes a special kind of arrogance to insist that the only reason anyone could possibly think you were wrong or, gasp, stupid, is because they have a deep-seated and blinding hatred of your religion.