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13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point 13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point

02-13-2010 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahrad
If someone delivers a gift, it is lacking of evidence that no one did send us the gift. It is not lacking of evidence that there was someone who did send us the gift. When there is a painting it is not lacking of evidence that there was a painter
Yeah, but paintings don't spontaneously paint themselves out of nothing and packages/gifts don't deliver themselves. So we can assume a painter or sender.

Do universes spontaneously exist? We have no idea. How does a universe form? Where does it come from? Did it come from anything - maybe it was always there?

And that's the point - neither of us have any idea about where a universe like ours originates. So do you see how inappropriate it is to compare it to a painting? We know it's EXTREMELY likely that a painting originates from a painter, whereas we have no idea where a universe originates.

So in having no clue how our universe originated, if you're going to propose a theory on how it did, you'll need evidence.

Your argument was also an example of black and white thinking - "(because these things that exist need a creator) everything that exists must need a creator."
You cannot say EVERYTHING that exists has to have been created by someone.

Last edited by SixT4; 02-13-2010 at 08:51 PM.
13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point Quote
02-14-2010 , 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahrad
As I know pretty well that the Atheists will try to cause a big confusion, I will discuss this issue point for point. So I begin with Lack of evidence.
If someone delivers a gift, it is lacking of evidence that no one did send us the gift. It is not lacking of evidence that there was someone who did send us the gift. When there is a painting it is not lacking of evidence that there was a painter (someone who did create it), it would be a lack of evidence that there was no creator. So:
When we and the world ... exist, it is not lacking of evidence that there was a creator, it is lacking of evidence that there was no creator.
Circular reasoning at its finest.
13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point Quote
02-15-2010 , 07:40 AM
I am not willing to repeat the whole discussion again. I only give a short review:
1. I didn't claim that there is a God: Hello Atheists who read this and ignore that my explanations have been related to this, keep this please in mind.
2. Someone did claim that there is no evidence that God exists: What I said is related to this claim and tries to show that his argumation is not based/grounded on logic. It is only an empty claim. Wake up guys: Related to this, I did only show up that if someone claims there is no evidence that God exists is even weaker than if someone would claim there is evidence that God exists. My reasoning:
First of all: Non of them is capable to prove his claim
Second: The former claim is still better than the first one cause when something exists it is rather possible that it was created, as an example,
I did use the case of a painting.
13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point Quote
02-15-2010 , 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahrad
2. Someone did claim that there is no evidence that God exists: What I said is related to this claim and tries to show that his argumation is not based/grounded on logic. It is only an empty claim. Wake up guys: Related to this, I did only show up that if someone claims there is no evidence that God exists is even weaker than if someone would claim there is evidence that God exists.
All I can think is that you're confusing 'there is no evidence' with 'we don't have any evidence' or possibly 'we have no way of demonstrating that anything is evidence'. But's that kind of dumb.

Quote:
My reasoning:
First of all: Non of them is capable to prove his claim
Second: The former claim is still better than the first one cause when something exists it is rather possible that it was created, as an example,
I did use the case of a painting.
For the bolded part: it's tricky to prove a negative, but luckily in this case, it's also not necessary.

Paintings and suchlike aren't valid for comparison. A painting is by definition created. Not created = not a painting. We can't say the same of universes (whatever NotReady might say).
13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point Quote
02-15-2010 , 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
All I can think is that you're confusing 'there is no evidence' with 'we don't have any evidence' or possibly 'we have no way of demonstrating that anything is evidence'. But's that kind of dumb.



For the bolded part: it's tricky to prove a negative, but luckily in this case, it's also not necessary.

Paintings and suchlike aren't valid for comparison. A painting is by definition created. Not created = not a painting. We can't say the same of universes (whatever NotReady might say).
You are just like always playing with words.
13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point Quote
02-15-2010 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahrad
You are just like always presenting arguments I am unable to refute.
Indeed. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
13 Reasons Not to Believe in God analysed point by point Quote

      
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