I, as a backer, recently was put in an awkward ethical situation that I want to discuss with the 2p2 backing community for their input.

I'm going to outline a situation with an example that is hypothetical.

I started backing a horse a few weeks ago. When I started him, the horse passed all background checks. Few weeks into the stake, I found some information with regards to a previous roll that the horse did not disclaim to me, nor did I catch at the start of the stake. Obviously, I did not do my homework well in this situation.

My question now is this:

1) I can confront the horse with the new information prior to dropping him, tell him I plan on dropping him because of said information, and ask him to send back funds immediately (nothing unethical here imo).

2) I decide to drop him, and before telling him, use lies (or whatever means necessary basically) to secure horse's funds, fearing that the horse may refuse to send back funds when I confront him about the new information. I would, in this situation, immediately tell him the true reason as to why he was dropped after securing funds (some ethical debate here?)


Is the second option unethical? From a business perspective, it seems very clear what the right option is, but I am not as clear how ethics should factor into how I go about this type of situation.

I have spoke with several backers regarding this kind of situation, and am looking for more input from backers in the 2p2 community.

Thanks in advance.

i am not a backer of something, but in my eyes the point is that the horse like u said did not disclaim to you something that might have effected your staking offering, so he basicly acted unethical in the 1st place and now its your free choice that u wanna drop him and your not straight forward action, based on his action and YOUR money, would in my eyes just be a self-defense-mechanism to assure u get what is yours and he won`t be able to cheat on you again.

your worried about being ethical with a probable scammer? Use whatever you think is best to secure your money.

I'm more concerned with how my reputation as backer would be affected in this spot. I don't think it's as cut and dry as "do whatever it takes to get your $ back". If lying is ok to get your $ back, where is the line drawn?

Well, it depends what your going to do I suppose. Can you not just say your on a massive d/s atm and need to cut back on investments and just apologise? I don't think anyone would blame you for that.

If your planning on hacking his account to transfer it back, that is a different story

I think anybody that has not been truthful will have a greater chance of not
returning the funds once they know you are not trusting them or potentially
dropping them.
Priority for you is to get your money back safe and then work it out with the horse.
Explain that this is standard procedure and just need to iron out a few more things.

If you are worried about anything this is a great opportunity for the horse to show
he is worth being backed.Any one that has a problem with this is a potential flight risk
to begin with in my eyes.Do not see how your reputation would be damaged for
verifying any info needed.

I know we talked about this on skype, but im just going to state my opinion once again itt.

since he lied to you, and is a former roller, i think you should be able to use any means necessary to recover your funds if you decide to drop him. then of course you tell him why after you secure the funds.

i personally could never see you losing your rep over something like this

My opinion is 1st secure your funds. How I would do this is, I would tell the horse that I wish to close the stake, but I would be vague in the reason why and avoid actually stating the reason. Once I have received the funds, then I would tell the horse why, and that would be that.

OP : "I want to close the stake."
Horse : "Why ?"

OP : "I will tell you everything after you send the money."

Horse is then faced with a decision. If he keeps the money, then you were never gonna get it back anyway. If he ships the money then tell him the truth.

He will bitch and moan before sending the money. He'll ask "why" repeatedly, but hold your ground and tell him you will fully explain after he sends the money.

lol this doesn t even workout in anybodys fantasy
how deep is the rabit hole ?

i dont think some of you guys are seeing the point.

he wants to know if what he would be doing (lying) is unethical and if it is not, what is unethical in a situation like this (if anything at all)

dont u have the right to end any backing at any time without any reason? i dont see why you need to even consider lying. i dont see lying as unethical at all, as long as u dont use unethical means(threaten to kill his family etc).

I'd do whatever it takes to get your money back. He was not honest with you to start with so you owe him no honesty back.

As a suggestion to do this, I'd lie to him and say you're been audited by the government... and you need him to send all the funds back for a few days until the auditor is done checking you out. And tell him the funds will be given back after a few days.

After the money is received confront him about his past and if it's a minor thing then perhaps continue the stake. If he rolled someone then cut him. GL

Because then the guy might not send the money back. In this situation lying is def. the +ev way to go.

I'm pretty sure that as soon as you say this, the horse will immediately figure out that he's been found out

I don't think it's unethical to do whatever it takes in chat/talks (short of some threat type situations) with him to secure your money in this instance. As long as you can show why the stake needs to end and you have the right to do so I don't see why this should ever hurt you in any knowledgeable poker community. You don't owe it to him to give him some clean straightforward chance to do the right thing if he's already done the wrong thing.

I can think of several approaches to use which involve not telling him the truth until the money is in your possession that I wouldn't hesitate to do in the same spot.

Once you have the money and explain it to him I would listen to what he has to say and move on however you see fit. That's about all you owe yourself in terms of worrying about what others will think.

This is of course if he gives you the money. If not, he's a thief.