Could anyone point me to the historical average ROI % of stakers?

I would think most get slaughtered by degen poker players abusing their generosity, and only winning stakers post results

historical average ROI of stakers? How would that number even be created?

Well in real world we would never get the data.

The only guys who would report their ROI would be usually biased and/or lying.

What I would be interested in, and perhaps willing to pay for, atleast in terms of coping with ads, about the horror stories with staking. Most of the stories are I staked a guy, he didnt pay back or degen dambled it away or similar. There could be huge popcorn value,

If I am reading this situation correctly:

You agreed to stake "Tom" on Stars for "$8 180's" ... You did him a huge favor by allowing him to play cash on the side because he is bored.

"Tom" then goes out and gets a backer on FTP for "$8 180's" and tells you about it in casual conversation.

Some easy questions are: Did you specify that you had all of his 180 action in the original contract? Did you specify you are ONLY backing him on stars? If "tom" had irl $$ that he put on FTP and played $8 180's with would you ask him for a cut?

If this is the case, Im finding it hard to come up with any way you are owed anything to be honest... I do think it was totally unethical and ****ty your horse did this.. But it sounds like he didn't breach any specific contract terms.. (Unless there was terms you haven't disclosed in your OP)

Hey guys, I'm creating a blog about poker staking. My motivation to start to blog was the fact that there seems to be a widespread ignorance about the business of staking, with many stakers getting involved in bad deals. To deal with that one needs a consistent mathematical model to evaluate each staking, and that’s what I’ll be developing on this blog.

My 1st post was about the most important thing that a staker needs to know: his EV, by knowing the winrate of the player, variance of the game, and number of tournaments/hands played in the staking deal.

Take a look, and you're free to comment as well

I hope it's ok to post it here, but it seems relevant.

MOD EDIT: Not allowed to post blog links here, but you can post it in your profile.

Hey guys,

I am interested in becoming a staked player and have been advised to come here after posting my situation on an alternative poker forum.

I am a NL50 player looking to move through the stakes and feel this can be best achieved by arranging a mutually beneficial staking deal.

However, most of the staking propositions on here require a reference or reliable post history in order to be considered. I fully understand trust is a very important part of any staking arrangement but was wondering how to get started if you are not a frequent poster on these forums.

I would be willing to provide any verification and comply to any background checks prior to getting started and would be willing to discuss any security measures a potential staker may want to take.

I am currently a $0.25/$0.50 player and can provide a sample size of over 80,000 hands, all played in 2013 with a win rate of approximately 5.75bb/100. I also have Diamond Edge status so receive 25% rakeback as well.

Thanks in advance guys.

I was wondering if Im interested in the staking side more than the playing side of poker is there money to be made as a new player staking other players?

Im new to online poker myself, not new to poker in casinos etc but would be willing to stake a decent player ( please dont inbox me with offers to be my horse I will choose should I put up a stake in the relevent section )

What would be a ideal stake to start of at Im talking MTT and SNG only pref micro $6 and under

Hey

I've been contacted by a French guy I know a bit (who plays on .fr rooms) and he asked me if I could stake him and coach him. I would then share profit with him (I think it's quite common).

I play Plo 200-600 and take shots at 1k-2k, so my hourly rate is "more than average"

His stats for 2012



For 2013 (until end of March)



Obviously his volume is his main problem, but here is the deal he offered me :

After 50k hands (he said he would do that in 2-3 months, which is possible I think), he would share the profits at 60/40 and give me €200 no matter what for the coaching.

Is that deal fair or should I change something? I don't know if I should stake him or not, and how would that matters.

I trust him, so the scam equity is very low.

Thanks and sorry if I posted this in the wrong section, I'm a total novice in the staking community.

Not sure if this has been discussed in here already and don't want to go through 100+ pages to look.

Anyways, me and another guy have a small stable and recently we signed 2 guys who player higher than what we originally set out to stake for. We're still kinda new to staking and didn't really think about how much of an impact taking these 2 guys would actually have. They're both in a bit of mu atm but we we're thinking of trying to get them into other stables and the backer buys their mu for some kind of discount or something. What is usually fair in these types of situations? any help or advice on this matter would be really helpful and much appreciated. Like I said we're still kinda new to staking and obv have alot to learn, I guess you can only learn through your mistakes right

P.S if there is any backers reading this who would maybe be interested in taking these guys off our hands, then feel free to PM me to discuss them further. They're both high volume, hard working, midstakes mtt/sng players and would be good additions to any stable imo, as long as you can afford it unlike us xD

thanks!

considering getting a stake from friends for a a mix of wsop donkaments and DSEs ... 9 events at approx. $10k in total buy-ins ... if the agreement is 50/50 w/ make-up, would it be reasonable to offer some sort of "extension" if the package ends with me in mu ... in other words, have them offer future stakes for cash and/or tourneys in an attempt to play out of make-up ??

Search MTTc, there are some threads about it. The number you get is probably gonna be lower than you expect/want. 20-50% depending on how much MU and how good they are.

50/50 just for the wsop is an awful awful deal for your friends. Just sell them your action using the markup system do you don't have to deal with makeup after the series is over.

okay, that makes more sense...thanks for setting me straight

I just made a new post on my blog about the EV of staking. Now you can calculate the EV for a staking in any variant, you can check my profile to see the site.

Common staking deal for sngs and mtts is 50/50 with make up.

My question is: Does it make any sense that 100% of the mu has to be supported by the horse?

What is backers risk then?

I want to post a thread for staking, how would i go about getting approval?

So I'm a microstakes 6max cash player. I'm a winning player over 10k hands at 10NL and 10k hands at 16NL and 25NL, I know its a pretty small sample size but I generally only get a couple of hours per week to play and I only 4 table.

I'm finished with university for the year so I have a lot more time for poker and I'd like to play some of the SCOOP events. I'd probably need to sell somewhere between 50 and 70% of myself to play and I'm just wondering how hard it would be for me to sell action or find a backer for around 15 of the events including the main. I understand that with a fairly small sample size and very little tournament experience it might be quite difficult.

wait 6 months and be an active 2p2 member

also reading the forum you are posting on probably helps.

What do you think is a fair live staking deal?

The stakee has a good live experience and has a decent edge in the games. For numbers use 15k hands at 12bb/100 win rate.

Thanks for any good advice :-)

I would probably use 50/50 on a sliding scale up to 60/40. 15k hands is not much of a sample

+1 to this. 50/50 is very fair for live deals especially at the start considering the lack of hands/hour and the huge trust on the side of the staker. Can work up from there as profit comes in and trust is built.

50/50 was my initial idea as well but I'm just not very experienced with cash game staking. Thanks guys :-)

Hello, I have discussed getting staked for live games with a friend, we trust each other 100%, the problem is, I have no idea what would be a fair deal.
Anyone know, other than the OP, any thread or article detailing how stakes usually work?
Something like these threads on B&M:
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...1802565&page=0
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...=0#Post2871144

But for staking guidelines.


I have read these, which looked promising: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...-games-306028/

But I saw this
And he didn't really expand much.
I WANT A GUIDE EXPANDING ONLY ABOUT THIS, how to divide the money and how much to pay, when to pay, how long should I be paying money (to eternity?)
How long do contracts usually last?

Or is there really not much else to say?
If I were to start the stake right now, I wouldn't know when to pay him or how much.

On a side note, my staker friend doesn't know anything poker and doesn't really need to know how things work, he expects me to manage the stake, I mean, we trust each other 100%.

Do you have a big sample of beating the games that you are going to play? If not then I would suggest that you not do this as it very easily could put strain on your relationship with your friend. Even if he trusts you 100% don't underestimate the stress that he will be going through since he doesn't know anything about poker. You didn't say what stakes you will be playing but even if it is just 1/2 it is likely going to be hard for him to understand that even a good player will at times go on downswings where you are losing a few thousand dollars. It also makes the whole staker/stakee relationship that much more difficult since he has no idea how to evaluate whether you are a profitable person to stake or not. If you do decide to go through with it then a lot of your questions don't really have 100% answers as it will come down to whatever you guys agree is fair. But a good place to start would be 50/50 split of profits w/makeup, split every month, you can quit whenever you aren't in makeup and he can end the stake at any time (if he decided to end it while you are in makeup then you do not owe that makeup amount). gl.

Thanks for the simple put answer. He is selling his car and wanted to stake me, he at one point offered me his car, the only payment would have perhaps been driving him around a lot. I hope that is enough for there not to be any trouble.
Never played on a casino before, is it even possible to be a loosing player live? The level here is so low I haven't worried about that.
Curiously enough, with currency conversion, the blinds are 0.5/1, which means a stack is 1/3minimum wage. Sad.
Got 2 questions now.
Do stakers usually impose a more conservative brm?
1How many poker hours apart should splits be, or does it not make much difference?
2What can stakers expect their returns to be?
And most important. when is it fair to finish the stake? Since, I figure, the most hours I play, the better for him, but i could really call the stake off as soon as I profited enough to be able to roll myself.

Been looking around but haven't found a concrete answer, this question is directly regarding live MTTs

In the US, winnings equal to or above $5,000 are taxed. If staker has 10% of player, and player cashes for more than $5,000, is the norm for the 10% to be before or after taxes are evaluated? Not sure if this affects the question, but this is assuming both staker and player are in the US.