It's a much bigger mistake at 2/3 blind structure

omg he folded his button 30% in a 2/3 structure? Thats when my pupils would turn into $$.

while i'm thinking about this what do you guys thing is optimal % of hands to play on the button in

1: 1/3 structure
2: 1/2 structure
3: 3/5 structure
4: 2/3 structure

and lets assume its a standard tough opponent who has some postflop leaks (otherwise you'd quit amirite?)

nah its a bigger mistake at 1k/2k. jk though i know what you mean.

Just check your PT with which hands you lose less than 1/3, 1/2...BB on the button.

haha

dboy23 I think it depends a bit on rake as well. I will comment on how I play some of the blind structures though.

1/3 Here I tighten up quite a bit. Probably play 75% or something.
1/2 I am at 90% (I dont think the bottom part of the range plays that much worse but you will have to make more check behinds on the flop imo) Its a rake thing as well.

lol I dont know but I get so excited, heart racing, when I am allin in nl. Even if the money is about 1/10 what I play in limit .

noob

I started out in NL, so this feeling went away years ago. I only get exited now when I'm playing at least 200bb deep and somebody calls my river push when I have the nuts.

And also when I make bluffs with air, which happens extremely rarely.

Just finished playing a dude that folded his button 42% of the time with a 2/3 structure. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I remember a bbv thread where bryce posted a hand raising like 27o OTB in a 2/3 structure huhu game. I asked him if he would ever fold a hand preflop in that structure and he said no

edit: found it
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...e#Post10914612

i never fold btn in 2/3, but i muck some stuff from bb (just 32-82 as default, i think). is this ok?

Also, gildwulf and others, i agree that it is easy to exploit somebody who folds too much. In fact, i am pretty inexperienced and leaky at huhu and i'm pretty sure i can still beat guys like this for a huge winrate.

But I find that this overly tight stuff usually only lasts like 50 hands before either they quit or start to adapt. After that I become a bit clueless as to what to do. Any suggestions?

My friend recently told me that I should "explore other parts of their game". I think he meant, switch up my strat to call a lot more instead of raising and try to find gaps in vb'ing and bluffing. Is this good advice, or should I just quit and look for another game? speaking primarily about 10/20 - 30/60 here.

Villains can have a lot of leaks besides being too foldy.

Some give too much action on the big streets (giving you tons of value), others will only raise turn or river with big hands (playing their hand face up).

Some always delay check/raising their strong range to the turn (so when they c/r the flop they mostly have weak holdings). Others will always c/r the flop with their good pairs and draws (then you can fire the second barrel very liberally without fearing they're trapping with top pair).

Some continually fall for induce plays (making it very profitable to take passive lines with marginal SD hands), others don't value bet enough (making it easier for you to fold to river bets and reducing your rio from drawing with hands that have some SD value, e.g. a K-hi flushdraw).

Some give too many free cards (so you'll get to draw cheaply with 6-outers), others fire too many barrels (so that you can delay your c/r without fearing that he'll take a free card).

Some guys call too light on the river (you'll get huge value from thin value-bets), others fold to 3 barrels with the bottom part of their SDable range (making 3-barrel bluffs with strong draws very profitable).

etc etc.

The trick is to figure out what their leaks are and how to exploit them and then always be one step ahead of them when (if) they adjust. Oh, and tilting people. Some guys become maniacs when they tilt, others become weak/tight.

Wolfram pretty much nailed it. However imo finding out how they play certain hands can take extremely long time. I think its more profitable to just quit aggro seemingly solid opponents at the lower limits. Maybe the competition is so tough at 30/60 that you need to find more difficult to spot leaks.

For the record I usually play a sort of adaptive game. I will sometimes wait sometimes not. I think most people are like this so you would need a huge sample and even then you might just discover that he c/r second pair 70-80% of the time on the flop or something..

my sample is only big enough with the 1/2 structure, but eventually i should have a big enough sample at all of the structures mentioned. but I'd like to hear others opinions.

hey can anyone tell me how long limit HUSNGs last on stars.

I play HORSE HUSNGs on ftp with no rakeback and i am wondering if the VPPs and FPPs are worth the switch.

Thanks a lot

wolf,
some good stuff here, but i think you may have misunderstood my question. I am wondering how one goes about finding these leaks. Do you just play your normal game and hope to catch them doing something stupid in X number of hands? If so, what is X? Or do you do something else to try to figure it out faster?

Also, as GW pointed out, not all mistakes were created equal. For instance, some guys may be a bit too bluffy on the flop or c-bet turn a bit too much, but its hard to pul 4bb/100 out of that. Do you have a guide for which mistakes are indicative of a big edge? Like, if you see them doing one thing you can assume they do xy and z?

Maybe it would be sort of fun to try to quantify. This is my list.

3BB Folding too much
1BB Induce plays

I played one guy who would limp his button, but never limp Ax. I think thats around 2-3BB .

Calling too light on the river is probably a tiny mistake if at all.

general consensus for non supernovas is

ftp with rb > stars > ftp without rb.

I like this idea but all I could contribute would be pretty much guesses.

Yeah mine are also just guesses.

I usually start the match off by playing a laggy preflop game and a lagtaggy, straight-forward and SD-bound postflop game. The main trick is getting to showdown enough so that you both give off an unbluffable image and you get to see what hands villain is taking specific lines with.

I don't have a set guide for evaluating villains leaks. Mostly I go by how comfortable I am playing the guy. If he's a typical preflop maniac I need to spot some juicy postflop leaks to continue. And if there are some hands were he owns me by exploiting a leak in my game I'll usually quit right there because it will give him a psychological edge.

I think it also depends on how I'm running. If I start a match off by running good I'll be more inclined to play a guy without finding big leaks because if I continue running well he might tilt and that's usually the biggest leak a decent player can have.

But mostly I'm just a huge game selection nit and quit guys after 15-20 hands if they're opening their buttons 70%+ and 3betting often without spewing postflop. There are plenty of loose/passive fish in the 5/T pool willing to donate their money to you. Maybe that's not the case for higher stakes?

I think a fine strategy to spot TAGs is to limp your button. If you are not getting raised. You have found a fish.

WTF, FTP's gotta be rigged. Fortunately, though, they've rigged it in my favor.

Seriously though, it's funny that real rollercoasters look so freakin' mild compared to result graphs. Up, down, up, down, with a sickeningly steep curvature. There truly is no "normal luck" and steady upward movement (if you happen to be a winner) in this game. But it's still fun, nevertheless.

I've been winning pretty consistently for the last month and a half at huhu so I can't really complain but...

****ing hell. I decided to take a shot at 10/20 today.

It starts off badly where I lose every hand in a very short session vs a lag and quit. Then i find some fish who donates to me and I'm up 10 bets.

Then I play an 85/23 guy who's folding the flop 44% to my cbets. I should obviously be killing him by stealing all his money but he runs hotter than the sun. It was seriously insane to watch. After about 200 hands his w$asd is 75% and his w$wsf is 47%. And he was missing an insane amount of value by checking behind strong pairs giving too many free cards etc. I make a small comeback and end up "only" losing 45 bets to him when he sits out, says "brb", then asks me if I want to move up to 15/30 and leaves when I say no thanks.

Thank god I had made $850 earlier during the day playing my regular games or the loss would have really stung.

Here's an example of his expert play:

Full Tilt Poker $10/$20 Limit Hold'em - 2 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 4 A
BTN/SB calls, Hero raises, BTN/SB calls

Flop: (4 SB) J Q 5 (2 players)
Hero bets, BTN/SB raises, Hero calls

Turn: (4 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets, Hero calls

River: (6 BB) J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks