I've been thinking a lot (maybe too much) about this ethics issue. A big disparity between online games as they currently exist and traditional b&m games is that in the b&m environment the peer group has a certain power to encourage an etiquette. In other words, you can be thrown out of the game or subjected to other kinds of ... peer pressure.

But in the online environment, it is certainly the case that almost anything you can get away with doing is being done by some percentage of the player pool. So you either accept that part of the game is giving up a percentage of your edge to those who will do things you're unwilling to do or you defend yourself by manipulating (at least some of) the game mechanics in your own favor. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

In other words, I think that in the online environment, it's kind of silly to discuss etiquette, ethics or morality. Everything comes down to the policies set by the poker sites and their enforcement.

In the particular case being discussed, we're crossing what is traditionally a very firm line. In a b&m environment, lying to another player about the rules is clearly a breach of etiquette and anyone caught doing so would be ostracized, ridiculed or worse.

But online such consequences don't exist.

I did something similar a few years back and have always felt a little bit sick about it. But I'm not so sure I wouldn't do it again. It's much less likely since I never look at the chat anymore but w/e. The point is that since I can do it, and there is no sense of adverse consequence, and money is involved... In the end, whether or not I think it's the best thing to do becomes obscured by other motives.

Someone will surely want to say that this means that I have the moral backbone of an invertebrate. While this is clearly true, my exoskeleton is a strong one and there are other lines that I won't cross, many of which are widely accepted by other winning players. So there is some moral temperature taking going on, and I'm sure on some level I'm thinking about how much profit I feel I'm giving up. As a kind of trivial example, I don't use software to calculate drawing odds or equity during live play as I can easily estimate the numbers myself, and perhaps more accurately than the software would (for instance, some programs commit what I call the "random cards fallacy" by supposing that the opponent could be holding any 2-card combo). So even though I think it's only a borderline issue ethically speaking, I choose not to use the software because I don't think I lose anything by not using it. OTH, I still find tracking software and HUD invaluable, even playing mostly HUHU, and will never stop using them unless forced to by an enforceable poker site policy. Going a step further, I think I probably do give up some EV by refusing to screen opponents with PTR, etc. but I just feel too gross about it. Obv someone else might have a completely different experience.

You know that if you tell them you don't want to play them and that you don't want them blocking your table that they have to leave right?

Full Tilt came out with a rule about that a while ago. Dunno about the other sites though.

LeBron to Miami! I'm calling it now

Also how do you remove this T in the bottom left hand corner?

ooooooooooooooh 60 120 on Full Tilt. I've never played 60 120. This is exciting.

yeah, i saw that yesterday. then i sat there just to see what it felt like and got up.

Options --> Badge Display Options

It's toward the btm of the dropdown.

where exactly did gw lie to the donkey? Saying "email stars, mine is fine" isn't anywhere close to a lie about the rules of the game.

If anyone is at fault it's the mod. He did a really bad job of explaining the situation to the donk.

Meh, it's at least misleading given the context. The thing I did was actually a little bit worse. If I had a point, it was that it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks of what he said. Unless it's in the context of an attempt to get one or more poker sites to make an actual change in policy, it's just words.

Also, if anyone stops here before checking IP, FTP is down.

lol Canadians...

x: so fkn luvky
x: must be nice
x: horesshoes up yourass
x: cant wait till osama blows the rest of you stupid gringos head off
x: all you guys will say is
x: HE TOOK OUR JOBS!!!
x: fkn fat bumsss
x: take a jog
ICanHold9Donuts: i run marathons
x: hot dog eating
x: lmao
x: your at least 260lbs
x: and love fast food
ICanHold9Donuts: 165
x: your leg?
ICanHold9Donuts: are you a comedian?
x: no pro poker plare
ICanHold9Donuts: what's a plare?
x: you cant read fukface
ICanHold9Donuts: you said "no pro poker plare"
x: like i said you ******ed
x: they took my job!!!
x: bunch of babies
x: took my job
x: wawawa
x: china is so good
ICanHold9Donuts: i love wawa
x: wawawa
x: tok my job
x: comon obama i need more money
x: wwawa
ICanHold9Donuts: dude wawa is ****** awesome
x: go have another donut you fatfuk
ICanHold9Donuts: best convenience store on the planet
x: thats where you get lunch everyday
ICanHold9Donuts: often, yeah
x: so fat
ICanHold9Donuts: i'm gonna buy so many hoagies with your money
x: i know
x: then your crack
x: then youll be broking &&%%&n why they took your job
ICanHold9Donuts: where are you from in canada?
x: i have a paycheck coming next week
x: im on mars
ICanHold9Donuts: impossible
x: no venus
ICanHold9Donuts: even more impossible
x: ur a joke
x: im gona rape your daughter tongiht
ICanHold9Donuts: do you want to play higher?
ICanHold9Donuts: i dont have a daughter
x: well your mother than
x: i know her little &&@$ assssss
x: loves cok
x: how do you think you were made
ICanHold9Donuts: how do you think you were made?
x: you were made by my siemen i rape your mother all th time
x: then i killed her
ICanHold9Donuts: oh ok
x: cause she sucks and sucking
ICanHold9Donuts: i never knew that
x: must be nice to be blessed
x: or your cheating
x: im reporting you
x: this is imposiible

I dont know how you do it but I tried today and found out I can only hold 6 donuts.

I dunno, they put a dozen in a box that is easily carried. How are you holding them?

When nits attack

Poker Stars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.4 SB) Hero is BB with 9 J
BTN/SB calls, Hero raises, BTN/SB calls

Flop: (4 SB) 4 7 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, BTN/SB raises, Hero 3-bets, BTN/SB caps!, Hero calls

Turn: (6 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets, BTN/SB raises, Hero 3-bets, BTN/SB caps!, Hero calls

River: (14 BB) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets, BTN/SB calls all in

Final Pot: 14.05 BB
BTN/SB shows 7 8 (three of a kind, Sevens)
Hero shows 9 J (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
BTN/SB wins 14 BB
(Rake: $0.50)

Dude was open limping 60% of his range and playing generally passive. I guess this was the hand where he decided to make a stand. He had a fraction of a bet left on the river.

FYP

I'm a classic nitpicker and there were so many nits to be picked.

It's been so long since I've been in a regular grind I don't remember is losing 83 bets in 62 hands is standard. I seem to remember winning 60 bets in 100 hands before and being super excited about it.

This good, combining laughing at fools with sound astronomy

v solid chat

I was sticking my fingers through the donut holes and I can only get 3 on each hand

ICanHold9DonutHoles

not super standard but definitely something that happens every couple of months or so.

Try something else for sticking it into the donut holes and there you have the missing three.

I will have to make a special order of donuts with extra large holes.

Hand converter not working
He actually thought for 10s on the river - as if I would 3 bet pf and barrel off with a pure bluff!

x posts small blind [$5]
luckydeuce posts big blind [$10]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to luckydeuce [ Th, 7h ]
x raises [$15]
luckydeuce raises [$20]
x raises [$20]
luckydeuce calls [$10]
** Dealing flop ** [ Ah, Kh, 9c ]
luckydeuce checks
x bets [$10]
luckydeuce raises [$20]
x calls [$10]
** Dealing turn ** [ Qs ]
luckydeuce bets [$20]
x calls [$20]
** Dealing river ** [ 4c ]
luckydeuce bets [$20]
x calls [$20]
** Summary **
luckydeuce shows [ Th, 7h ]
x mucks [ 6h, 8h ]
luckydeuce collected [ $199 ]