These are usual misunerstandings.

There is no impact to the poker economy by the bots, no relation to being at risk. Coming with statements like the above is actually what may put the poker economy at risk, as fishes get scared, and you write them as you really believe it.

Using bot is not unfair, from view of the game. It is unfair to the extend that you break the ToS, but this is hard to quantify. It is some element of surprise (that you are running a bot, and your opponent doesn't know it). Versus an unaware fish, using something like poker tracker gives you much bigger edge. So it really boils down to do you break the ToS of the casino, or not.

BTW, do you play poker proffesionally? On which sites? Tell me that, and then let's discuss breaking the ToS.

So bots taking money from tons of fish and losing a small bit to pros doesnt impact the poker economy? Care to expand more on that?

That is the issue I think everyone has with bots, so if you can relieve our concerns with that issue I will be glad to see it your way.

i think his contention is that bots, on avg, play just as bad as the avg human. Hard to believe but who cares. As players trying to make money off the games, it is still in our best interest to get rid of the winning mid/hi-stakes bots. In the same sense as it's in our best interest to find a small fishpond site and try to dissuade other good players from playing there. Main difference being in the first case we have some legal ground to stand on whereas in the second case its basically just futile.

Yes, this is my main line of argumentaion.

In that line, winning bots are good to the extend that they attract more people to deal with bots - which is impossible for most people (to make a winning bot) - so a lot of people donate money to the economy. It is the same principle that pros winning money are good for the game, as they are the one that attract the fishes, by stimulating their dreams.

By the way, most winning bots cannot sustain winning, once they get profiled. So not only it's hard to build a winning bot, but it's hard to maintain a winning bot.

There is certain threshold, where bots (or rather say the AI reseach), for a particular poker game, advance so much that the games stales. This is however an issue independant of bots. At such point of time you will get advisors, or human digestable strategies that are close to optimal strategies, so the games are f-up anyway.

2+2ers,

Following a thorough investigation by Full Tilt Poker Security and Fraud, it has been determined that a number of players have violated our site terms and End User License Agreement by using prohibited software. This includes some (but not all) of the accounts mentioned in this thread, along with others that weren't named.

The evidence compiled by our Fraud Analysts was presented to an independent and impartial review committee. The panel unanimously agreed that cheating had taken place and that the accounts should be closed permanently.

In cases of proven cheating, 100% of the confiscated account balances is returned to the victims. In this case, more than 800 players will receive reimbursements, ranging from $100 to over $15,000. We spend tens of thousands of dollars conducting comprehensive investigations of this kind and invest millions of dollars to ensure the highest level of integrity in our games. We continually strive to improve every aspect of the playing experience for our customers, and the fairness of our games is of paramount importance. We'll never compromise when it comes to protecting our honest players from dishonest ones.

I encourage all 2+2ers to stay on the lookout for unethical conduct and to report any suspicions directly to security@fulltiltpoker.com. Comments and constructive criticisms are also always welcome.

Sean

could you give us a list of the busted players?
thanks

they wont

Will players be recieving money based on total number of hands played vs these bots relative to stakes played or will money only be given to players who lost money vs these bots?

Also who is this independant and impartial committee you mentioned?

I was one of the players on MrGatorade's original list. Fortunately my playing account is now reopened, since I was able to convince the site in question that I'm not in fact a bot.

Now I want revenge. It is well-known that MrGatorade - aka Michael Thorpe - is multi-accounting on UB. His second account is called Thorpie. I long ago pointed out this fact to UB but had no joy: they claimed they would take action but obviously didn't.

I don't know how Thorpe gets away with it - does he maybe have permission from UB to multi-account? Is he an insider there? Or do they just not give a damn? How can I get them to act to enforce their own rules?

I'm a long-time 2+2er but am posting this under a fresh name. I don't want to field more bot accusations from this player who so notoriously is constantly calling everybody else "unethical", at the same time he's pulling his own shameless stunts. I'm really sick of his toxic presence on all the sites I play, and want to do something about it now.

ub doesnt care

I hate Mr Gatorade even more than I hate bots.

so i got an email saying im gonna get a refund and then a few hours later i get an email saying a transfer was declined for the amount of the refund

did this happen to anyone else

Happened to me as well. Someone from Full Tilt probably screwed up while making the deposits.

me 2

2+2ers,

We’ve encountered a technical issue which is temporarily delaying the delivery of payments for the reimbursements. We’re working on the issue and the reimbursements will be sent out as soon as the issue is resolved.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Sean

i hope the money isnt from canuckduster or poorlittlegirl cuz i only got $250 and both of those players have killed me for many thousands.

I got 946$ back, and have lost at around 4000 to skydiverkid and canuckduster.

I am -1430 to 8hunter and -1005 to poorlittlegirl and my refund was for 398 before it was denied

I got a little under 5k back. Thanks Full Tilt!

I lost 8.5k to kittycakes and wish4dish and got 1.1k back, or about 13%.

Thanks FT for doing what you could.

Don't thank fulltilt. Thank Crazy Mike. You would never have received a nickel if we left finding bots up to fulltilt. They only reacted after we begged them to and brought the issue public in this forum.

SallyWoo

Anyone else think that the refunds would have been higher if the whole bot hunt had been done a bit more discreetly?

if it was done more discreetly (not posted on here) then FT never would have reacted and stepped up to the plate to take care of it. A few people have been emailing and giving details to them for a while and they did nothing! The reimbursements would have also been less if the bots werent allowed to operate so long and keep taking money from players

SallyWoo

I actually think the opposite is much more likely.

My only beef with the reimbursements is that they were given to people who lost to the bots. Sure I beat the bots over a couple hundred hands but I was cheated just as much as the next guy.