Limp all 90% hands ? Or raise and limp 45% / 45% casually ?
What do you prefer ?

If a player only limps 15%-25% , it's so easy put him on a random trash hand like K3o, T2s

@ ghrrooo. Against a perpetual 3-bettor I am limping most of my range. The hands that I include in my limping range include trash hands obviously. Buuut just limping trash hands is one of the worst things you can do in heads up limit holdem. Along with my trash hands I limp a little of everything, including ace ace. I also love to limp ace 3 or other showdown able hands that aren't that great but I feel comfortable calling multiple streets with. I mean I cant just limp my **** hands and raise my good ones, most opponents (even bad ones) are able to pick up what my pre-flop ranges are.

That said, I think that against some clueless opponents who never really 3 bet pre flop and really aren't paying attention to whats going on and really don't know what I am doing pre-flop, I can actually get away with raising my good hands and limping my bad hands without even balancing my range. So in that case I might limp 40 percent. These opponent types are not very common though.

I mean it all depends on what my opponent is doing. Like, if they are raising all of my limps but not 3 betting a ton, then I start to limp my premium hands like AA. In fact if I find that my opponent is raising all of my limps and not 3 betting then I will only limp my best hands and raise the turn and usually get called down very light which is obviously a great result. On the other hand if my opponent is letting me get in cheaply with my trash, then I take advantage of that and limp my trash.

Like I said, balancing pre flop is not very easy to do and most players (including myself for sure) don't really know how to balance pre flop if they are limping and 3 betting.

I feel like limping a lot of my range against a perpetually 3 better is optimal because when they are raising all your limps I think that they are donking close to 100 percent. I think that having an opponent donk close to 100 percent in 1 big blind pots is a better result than having an opponent donk 100 percent in 1.5 big blind pots. i feel like keeping pots small in position is basically magnifying the mistake of and opponent who is betting out of position most of the time. That is basically why I limp and if my logic is incorrect I would certainly love to know why.

I think your logic is fine. But I don't limp against someone who 3 bets constantly because they are making a big mistake and I worry that if I adjust by limping they will stop making that big mistake.

One caveat:

Less than like 6k hands lifetime playing LHE of any kind, and even then just .10/.20 6max.

In a game like LHE, where preflop equity is super important and getting to showdown is easy, capping with the top half of your opponent's 3betting range seems like it would be immediately profitable, regardless of any other adjustment you make, just from a game theory standpoint.

i am was referring to how sonia beats me not how i beat sonia.

I disagree with this for HU. Preflop is in large part about manipulating your opponent. IE if they don't get to showdown often (or if you have a "red line style"), often bloating the pot early is important, if someone is an aggro monkey having a pfr of near zero can be ideal. sonia more or less nut peddles v a monkey with very low pfr in both positions and a sub 1 aggression factor postflop.

anyway the real point is "how do i stove v this guys range here?" doesn't come into play much for me or most other good players i have heard talk about the game.

If someone is 3 betting chronically at over 50% isn't it just better to be a bit more selective pre-flop then out play post flop, by valuetowning when you hit the flop?

@ceegee. Thats not much of an adjustment. You can get away with throwing out maybe 5 percent more hands profitably (not even sure if you should be throwing out more hands against this opponent type) but you've got to play most everything in hu limit.

I previously wrote this on what to do when your opponent 3 bets but this is more for typical player...i.e. not chronic 3 better. I agree that limping is a decent counter strat against a chronic 3 better(who will also raises when you limps):

There are differing opinions on what range you should make it four bets with before the flop.
Here are a couple:
Always call, even if you have AA, AK, 78s, whatever. You are just calling to not give
any additional information about your hand. They cannot narrow your range any further. Any bets
that you lost before the flop can be made up on the flop. You can also typically see a showdown cheaper if you
think thats the appropriate course of action. It would be more difficult to do this if you had made it 4 bets
before the flop.
Others say only rereraise your best hands, as they are the only ones that have more than 50% equity against there
range. But from a strategic point of view, if your opponent is paying attention he is going to figure out
your range and play pretty accurately against it. This is not what you want. Another good reason not to make it 4 bets
with a good hand is that against some opponents, once they 3 bet they will relentlessly bluff at the pot even when you show
continued agression but if you 4 bet they will shutdown, not something you want to happen if you have a premium hand.

Like any good poker question the proper answer is "it depends".
The biggest factors that dictate with what range to 4 bet are:

what is his 3 betting range:
the more he 3 bets, the weaker his range is, thus you can 4 bet more. If he always calls
with premium hands and always calls with strong hands, then you might want to just call with strong hands and either make it 4 bets with
some speculative hands or make more bluffs on the flop.
If he is very rarely 3 betting you almost never want to make it four bets before the flop. This is so you can make it easier
to get to showdown so you have a better idea of what his 3 betting range is. Also, if you make it 4 bets before the flop, you have
to have a strong hand (you should since his range is narrow) and he will be able to play well against that range, which you dont want.

How your opponent plays in 3 bet pots vs. 4 bet pots:
Some players play very well in 3 bet pots, some play horribly.
All other things being equal try to move the action sequence to where they make the most mistakes against your particular hand.

Some typical examples of mistakes people make in 3 bet pots are:
turning there hand face up after they 3 bet (checking on the flop with ace high on an all low board)
never giving up with their agression once you raise them on the flop or turn

Some typical examples of mistakes people make in 4 bet pots are:
folding and not playing back at you at all. These players will shutdown and sometimes fold immediately
on the flop if they did not hit. They think your range of hands are too strong to bluff at, at and too strong
to peal cards lightly against. Obviously you want to 4 bet more against these guys but not so much as they catch on.

He was doing a mistake in the first place, and only if he won't adjust to your limping, will he be making still a bigger mistake, making limping better.

[QUOTE=ghrrrooo;13964207But my normal strategy is to just raise/call any2 like 95o or KK. I know other strong players do that and I agree with this strategy. I'm trying to understand why other players cap..[/QUOTE]

Vs. an insane opponent one should be putting as many bets in preflop as possible with a showdown hand.

But vs. sane cases. I pick the line preflop that's clearer to me. I don't like 4betting vs. solid or tighter ranges as it's clear for me how to play against them then but usually is not as clear if I would 4bet, people getting more unpredictable with their solid 3betting hands then. Vs. liberal 3bettors I like to 4bet often, with a good mixture, so I don't need to fold as many hands post flop and their range is already messy to me and I don't like sitting there watching those players but like to put them facing some more "higher" problems as well as challenge their preflop pumping. But 4betting as a newbie is no good as it takes experience and one should learn it a bit by bit.

The clarity point is also true when not 3betting someone (when one is on the BB), or even not open raising when one sees a bigger edge in limping.

Vs. the one who 3bets a lot, if you want to keep wondering his range and how he plays them post flop, you can do that; I (additionally) rather 4bet with a balanced and profitable range and wonder after that (Ivey 4bets and he was the one who destroyed Hawrilenko at 2k-4k), also sending a clear message to them that there will be many 4bets (you will be weaker on the range when you call but it figures not to make much of a difference other than he might be more likely to keep betting), and I think they are more at ease by cbets, ccbets, cccbets than they are after having faced a 4bet, and their 3betting habits also indicate that they like that more as well as they maybe don't like roping hands, but when I 4bet often, they are not facing that strategy as often and one is not letting them to play their game that often or as a detail not at all (even if they come out donking every time the situation is not the same), though one is not to be a sucker of what happens post flop then and one's 4bet ranges need to be balanced (not vs. an idiot).

good post fatandugly.