I see so many posts about moving to Vegas to be a pro and I don't understand the endgame. Pre black friday becoming a poker pro made sense. If you could work your way up to high stakes online serious money could be made but that dream is dead.

With rare exception the biggest non-private nl game that runs semi regularly is 10/20 and even that is basically limited to the Bellagio and a few of the bigger California rooms. Given the number of 10/20 games that run it is likely the pool of successful US pros playing at that level is likely less than 200. If you beat 10/20 for 5bbs an hour and are able to get in 30 hours a week you will make about 150K a year assuming two week vacation. And that is your ceiling as there are not higher stakes to move up to outside of rare events. And the game is not getting easier it is getting harder. Much more likely that you are going to top out at 2/5 or 5/10 and make considerably less.

Am I missing something about the economics? If you are smart enough to be a successful poker pro it seems like a poor choice to waste your best working years on a profession with a low ceiling that is likely getting lower (was watching a vlog from a guy named Johnnie Vibes whose regular 5/10 game in San Diego stopped running and now he and his wife are basically travelling the country in their car trying to find games for him to play in). And if you don't want the traditional career route there are still tons of other options that you can grow and develop your skill in that have much higher ceilings than poker.

I'm assuming their life sucks, they are able to win some money at poker, and have a pipe dream to change their life and it seems like a viable option.

That's how we all ended up here.

The "freedom" to sleep in till one o'clock everyday, not have health insurance, and live like a grown man-child.

knowing you're always one bad decision away from living the rounders story line.

Being smart and being able to thrive in a traditional job are not necessarily correlated. Same goes for ability to succeed as an entrepreneur.

And, finding yourself beyond your most early youth, with a number of hard to explain or frowned upon periods of professional activity or lack of same on your resume, getting a just reasonably paying job with any kind of upside might not be possible.

The truth is playing poker full time is a tough gig with not a huge upside.
For the average player who doesn't have access to private games its probably a decent side gig but a poor full time gig.
Meaning you only play when the games are good and do something else the rest of the time (run an online business or something like that)

D.

2-5 and 5-10 Live poker games in the us are not full of pros who would otherwise be making 100k+ a year elsewhere. Its full of odd ducks who found some success at poker and dont want to switch lanes to something else. I personally might be intelligent enough to pursue something more substantial but had zero success academically growing up and have no desire to have a boss or be a boss.

It's a hard way to make an easy living. The mindset you need to be successful in poker is one that few have.

The average income in the United states is what, 40k range? Why become a manager at some large chain when your ceiling is only 80k? These post are ****ing stupid. Majority of people in america will never have a year in their life where they make over 100k. Those are just the facts.

Sooooo everyone should go pro in America?

Soooo maybe the alternatives are not that great. This is the internet where everyone is an ex navy seal now graduating from harvard to work on wall street and make 50 million in ten years but some of us aint all that. The alternative to this thread could be "whats the upside of owning a drywall hanging business in america?" I mean why would anyone want to do that? Huge swings in the construction market and keeping good employees is hard.

a poker player making $50/hr is going to be worse off than a teacher making $60k salary.

Poker is a terrible profession unless you are in the .5% of players who are making a ton of money.

Are most of the pros who make $50/hr playing live poker reporting all income?

Seems high.

http://www.nea.org/home/2017-2018-av...er-salary.html

Starting salary avg in the us is 39k a year and you obviously have too pay for school and be someone who wants to y'know... teach children. No doubt thats infinitely more useful than me but lets not pretend that its easy to become a teacher making 60k or that 50$/h is the ceiling of live poker.

Starting salary is 39k. In 10 years that person will be making at least 40-60% more than that.

In 10 years poker players are going to be making less than they do now as the games get harder.

Arguing the income expectations of being a teacher vs poker player is about as useful as estimating the ratio of stanley nickles to schrute buck. If you go to school get a useful degree and spend ten years in a given profession you might make more or less than you would if you applied the same amout of effort to poker. Almost none of the ppl grinding out 1k-2k buyin cash games want to do that.

While you are correct. The types of skills and self discipline needed to make 100K at poker could be taken to other areas where the upside is much greater.
Someone making 100K at poker is not an average person or even at the level of middle management. That person is essentially running their own poker business.

it's not either or

my buddy is a middle school teacher, makes about $90K and plays poker on a side, he plays in the best games with $50/hr+ hourly

if he played full time, his hourly would be much worse

what's more important he has a ton of vacation time, health insurance retirement package etc which by itself is additional ~ $30K+/year

if he didn't play poker at all he'd be an equivalent of $150K/year poker player and not many poker players make that much

This seems like the beat approach. Profitable side hustle/hobby but not a career substitute


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The main advantage of being an American poker pro is that you get to be American.

Most full time white collar employees get anywhere from $5k - $25k in 401k match/pension and health insurance. Also you have to pay 15% self employment tax as a pro poker player. It is a terrible gig.

You need to get out to see the world. That is no where near the advantage it used to be, if at all.

Well, we apparently can still recognize a smug joke better than the rest of the world, so we've got that

There are a number of excellent posts so far in this thread which make some very accurate, and realistic observations. I quote this one because it does point out the fact that in addition to the basic salary, there are also significant other benefits (e.g. health insurance, paid vacation, etc.) that also need to be factored in, if you are interested in making an accurate salary comparison.

As for "poker pro" being a viable "lifestyle" choice: To each his own, but a number of posts make the point that the % of those who truly succeed is a very small one (perhaps at the % level of the NBA or less).