I'm sorry i dont enjoy losing money or have fun during losses thats why i never understood the reasoning behind 'gamble for fun'. I only see opportunities in a casino or in any form of gambling otherwise why play it just my mentality... If it is your hobby to gamble and enjoy playing - EV games try to think like this is an increase in taxes or in the prices of playing the game just like any other hobby. Corporates often raise the prices on a yearly bases for their goods and/or their services right?

anyone who cares about this is playing close to PBS, if he isn't an advantage gambler. the edge they have on him won't even keep the lights on, so good riddance to those "customers". the only question is why they hadn't done this sooner.

Here is what has happened. Before Thorp published his Beat the Dealer in 1966, almost all the bj games in Vegas were single deck with good rules. After Thorp's book, the casinos changed the rules, but quickly rescinded them when customers rebelled. Instead they instituted more subtle changes like multi-deck shoes that supposedly made counting more difficult (it didn't). So many books and other information on bj have made the basic strategy common knowledge. With the old rules, playing basic strategy made bj a break even game. The casinos are not in the business of offering break even games, so they have been changing the rules for years to make the game harder. And so we have the situation today.

The same thing has happened with video poker. As the knowledge of how to optimize play has become more general, casinos have all but eliminated break even machines. Such machines enabled knowledgeable gamblers to break even while collecting high dollar comps. Casinos have finally caught on that they don't make any money off these people.

How could it have been any different?

i generally stay away from table games.i could beat bj but even in the last 10 years or so the bj games have gotten so bad it's not worth it. i'm not that old but when i first went to vegas there were still really good double deck games all over.now the games suck and the heat is ridiculous.


i do occasionally play for an hour or two to get some drinks or if im in vegas or ac with friends who wanna play.however on sheer principle i'm not gonna just bend over and have them quintuple their house edge with this bull****. there's even been a few times i was gonna play bj for an hour or 2 drunk which may turn into me spewing but i couldnt find a 3-2 game so i didnt play. in total i'm easily in a casino 200 days a year and will play bj 2-3 times a year for very small stakes.

Well, for starters, casinos could have incorporated as non-profit organizations instead of corporations. Every time a CEO was replaced, the Board could say, "You know what, our stock price is fine as is. Your job is to make the customers happy, you lucky bastard, you."

Huge, gawdy hotel-casinos would be built by crowdfunding. Instead of charging entry to the club, they'd stop the music every hour or so and take a totally voluntary collection. The break would also be an opportunity for volunteers to walk around and offer free STD testing. STD free people would get stickers.

They'd get rid of CSMs and 6:5, and they'd hand out basic strategy cards at the table so people didn't have to lose any more than they need to.

Instead of casino surveillance looking out for giant faceless corporations, they'd be looking out for people. Every pit boss would be equipped with a breathlyzer. People would have to pass before they were allowed to gamble, and given a buffet comp if too intoxicated.

Anyone who gambled away their life savings could apply for a refund. Just bring proof that your bank account is empty and that your mortgage is due, or maybe a note from an angry spouse, and a suite will be comped until the refund goes through.

In regards the handing out of basic strategy cards, (and the fact that 6:5 is acceptable) I've seen so many times where a new player would consult is strategy card, decide he didn't want to hit his soft 18 or double his 9 or hit his 15, and would go against the card. There's just no helping almost every gambler out there.

Even if it's not fool proof, casinos should do it. I mean, what's the alternative, just blindly try to make as much money as possible off of its customers?

i wouldnt worry about this too much it seems cyclical and the market will respond, same with resort fees. just sucks in the short term. i think the more strip properties that go to 6:5 the quicker this whole situation will correct itself.

That's what people probably said about 6/8-deck shoes, H17, and what they definitely said about CSMs.

6:5 is almost certainly here to stay. In the end everyone votes with their dollars and dumb people cast a lot of votes so ... *shrug*

unfortunately this is most likely true.although this 6:5 **** is way worse than h17 csms

this +1

will never play 6:5

i played just bj for years prior to poker, having surrender and 3:2 is very important

I've probably posted this in LVL before but I'm going to do it again because I'm either a real believer or a pedantic dick.

The golden age of gambling in Las Vegas is over. Las Vegas used to be casinos with hotels attached for their gamblers' convenience. It is now hotels, clubs, and restaurants with casinos attached for their guests' amusement. As gambling becomes legalized basically everywhere, people go to Vegas for the spectacle, not because they have nowhere else to gamble.

Table games and even poker rooms are treated with contempt by management - the dollars per square foot they bring in pales in comparison to basically everything else (even slots). They're viewed as decoration, almost - things that give a casino a casino-y feel.

So it should come as no surprise that the bastard children of the casino get shat on all the time. Why bother spreading a 3:2 shoe game and have to assign full time surveillance to ward off card counters, when you can just nuke it from orbit with 6:5? Who's gonna complain, card counters and grumpy old nits and people who are smart enough to realize how bad it is? ****. Them. Those people no longer pay the bills.

QFT

I'm not a blackjack player but that makes the most sense of anything I've read in this thread. I don't like to see rules like this changed or break even VP machines removed or the rake going up etc. However, Cailli is right, the golden age is over and it's not just Vegas.

I saw this same thing happen in some of the smaller gaming markets in the South. Shreveport/Bossier City and Tunica are prime examples. Because of a combo of the bad economy, higher operating expenses and the expansion of gambling all over the U.S., tons of casinos have to find a way to make more money. Changing rules to get money out of the smart break even type players is like low hanging fruit, why not do it if you are the house? Let's be honest, by far the majority of gamblers are stupid and they could care less what the odds are. Heck they could add another 20 numbers to the roulette table and leave the odds the same and it wouldn't stop a single person from playing. I dare to say it might increase play because now there are "more lucky numbers" to hit! Don't get me wrong I don't like any of this but it's already happened in a lot of markets.

I never got to see LV in the old days. I spent the first 12 years of my gambling in the South and for some crazy reason never ventured out to LV. I wish I had. I love Vegas but it's crazy expensive and it gets worse with hotel, food and drink prices every year. Calli is dead on, casinos are just side attractions to the main attractions in LV. Casinos are basically becoming glorified gift shops where they hope guests pass through and spend a little money and profit margins are huge for the house....just like the gift shop.

Pretty much wraps it up... (Sadly)

Untrue. Vegas BJ in 1980 was pretty much the same 20 years later. It's been fairly recently that a lot of rule changes have happened.

Just made a video of the spreading of 6:5 blackjack payout games that are multiplying in Las Vegas and the world. Can't believe that gamblers don't care how much they are losing with the short pay. It is demonstrated in the video...ENJOY!!!

I wasnt there in 2000 but the first time I went to Vegas was 2005.
The games weren't quite what I had read about from the "old" days but they were still lots of good countable games.The downtown games were mostly great and since everything is so close together it was easy to play for an hour and go to the next place. I specifically remember the plaza binions and four queens having awesome games.

They've deteriorated so much since then and are now mostly utter dog ****.

With that said I understand why the casinos do what they do.If people are too dumb or indifferent to care they're gonna charge as much as they can.

Stop it man, you're killing my dreamy, imaginary view of Vegas!

When I counted in the late 90s, people were complaining about how much the games had deteriorated since the 80s.

And in 2025, when they start introducing 1:1 BJ and no splitting games, people will be like man i miss the good ol days of 2015.

great points... hopefully (unlike the BS 'resort fees') a few casinos will be the exception and advertise and offer 3:2/splits/surrender like we've always had, as a reason why to go there instead of the 6:5 ripoff bs.

good analysis re how it's all changed, agree re table games low priority, incl. poker/bj/craps, since slot yields and F&B generates more $/sq ft

my favorite place to play BJ was Bellagio, hope they still have 'classic' rules, maybe the wizardofodds site (great btw) updates w/current rules. i play hold'em now, not BJ, but really enjoyed playing w/andy bloch's rules for years, got a ton of play for my $ from 2008-2012; his tips work great btw http://andybloch.com/2012/08/19/beat...vd-transcript/

Thanks for this very clear and understandable contribution. :/

I compile the Wizards of Odds BJ rules sheet. It was last updated around early January. I have not heard anyone complain about any rules changes at Bellagio. Aria is just as great, although the limits tend to be a bit higher.

Across the street, Bally's has no 6-5 games and has a six-deck shoe $25 min S17 with surrender game.

Really? Thank you, it's an amazing resource.

Yes, lord sweet Jesus bless the Wizard and all of his information.

cool - thanks! used it for years back when I was playing bj, best resource out there