I think Caesars is looking to jump onto the parking fee bandwagon (surprise, surprise) soon because when I drove into the parking garage (at Flamingo), a worker surveyed me asking if I was local or hotel guest and my tier of card. I guess they are doing research for parking fees and the type of people who park in the garage.

I would still like some clarification on how this would effect locals coming and going to gamble, play poker, eat, etc. Is there chance we can get validated like Binions does?

No one knows yet. I asked a floor at Bellagio poker room just yesterday; she said they are hoping for something like that but it has either not been decided, or has not yet been passed on to them.

They gave me this response when I complained to them:

It doesn't sound like they are intending to make it easy to get it waived.

Also one of their big arguments is they are already doing everyone a huge favor by making it $10 (and valet $17) instead of more. Murren has made it very clear that he hates the idea of giving away anything for free. Why make it easy to get validated if they think they can make a bigger profit by making people pay?

Maybe MGM is taking an 80/20 approach to their player business model. I'm sure they make 80% of their profit from 20% of their customers so they are looking for a way to weed out the very bottom of that 80% of bad customers who are more hassle than they are worth. Putting a barrier to entry on getting into the front gate (for those with a car) will weed out those who don't care about an extra $10 a night when they pay $200+ for a room versus those who drive in, play 6 hours of poker (not a profitable business line for them), take up the cocktail waitress's time and drink free liquor, and then leave only contributing some rake and taking up parking spaces that other more profitable players would want. Also using the bathroom that has to be cleaned by an attendant and slowing down the free wifi while they stream movies at the poker tables. While I don't stream movies, I only play poker and am clearly not the customer that they want to attract. From a business point of view, this makes sense.

Although, I hate this and fear Caesars will follow suit and will cost me a lot of money.

Bellagio sure acts like they want business in their poker room though...they're always taking out ads in magazines, etc.

Of course not. They're counting on it for more profits!

Nope, Vegas is the opposite. They have thousands of slot machines in their casinos. If their money mostly came from whales, they wouldn't have the slots.

The guys running the poker room aren't the same guys charging for parking. To some degree they're probably battling each other.

The guys running the poker rooms unfortunately are several tiers below the guys charging for parking on the totem pole.

Well, at least one person here would pass Econ 101.

The reason that poker players love poker is the exact reason the casinos hate poker. Rake is low, and if people play badly it's other players, not the house, that profit.

What you forgot to add was that poker players order two Fiji waters at thw same time so they don't have to tip out a whole dollar per bottle, and also if you take any of this away (raising rake, reducing comps, switching to plebean water, etc.) people will denounce you as the Worst Company in the World and threaten to take their business elsewhere.

Meh, this has been discussed lots of times. The problem with this "Econ 101" is that you simply and by large do not have enough of these preferred customer types to fill the casinos in Vegas. Indeed they are a rather rare breed and therefore much sought after in any casino.

Actually economics theory suggests that a business should seek out all customers that make them any profit whatsoever, down to covering the bare margin, not that they should only seek out the most profitable opportunities.

I majored in econ back in college with a minor in business

That is probably MGM's intent here with the parking charge, i.e. maximizing profit from as many customers as possible.

I'm sure it is, but it could backfire. While they don't make a lot of money from poker players, I would guess they do typically make more than $10 per day from each that comes in the door. If the parking fee chases them away, they will be a net loser.

They don't make a lot of money from poker players playing poker. But as so many sad stories indicate, poker players don't play only poker in casinos.

Yes, basic economics says this but there are 2 points that I would argue. First, practical business studies says that if you have a customer who you are breaking even on or making a minimal profit on without a hope for that customer to become a more profitable one in the future, then you should dump them and focus your resources on maintaining your profitable customers and acquiring new customers who will be profitable.

Second, I argue that players like me are not profitable at all to casinos. It doesn't even matter if I tip $1 or $2 for my 2 Fiji's because the casino isn't getting the tip. If I only play poker, they lose money on me overall plus I take up space (both in the parking garage and on the casino floor) that could be better used on a more profitable customer.

So a $10 parking tax tries to weed me off their property.

Plus, casinos have this amazing analytical tool called a players card that they can use to find the profitable locals/car parkers and send them parking comps to make sure they are not scared off by the parking fee.

As much as I hate this, it's a good business move probably.

p = parking charge;
a = number of players lost who exceed p EV to casino;
b = average EV to casino of group a;
c = number of players lost who are less than p EV to casino;
d = average EV to casino of group b.


Casino is making correct decision if: a*(b-p) + c*(d-p) < 0.

A lot of players who love poker are gamblers. They're not all nits who won't spend a penny anywhere else in a casino. And many poker players don't care about the rake which explains why Venetian still had 21 tables running last night.

I'd like to see that calculation, pretty sure it's flawed

I'm also basically a worthless casino customer.but the lots and casino floor are basically never full (it's not like I'm in Vegas on NYE) so I'm not preventing more profitable customers from taking parking spaces etc.

If the only thing we judge decisions on is whether they are a good business move, then shouldn't I stop tipping dealers, waitresses, etc.? It's a plus EV move for me, and soon I can add the excuse that it will pay my parking fees. I might also try to act like a jerk at the table in an attempt to put other people on tilt and take their money. One can even go further and try looking at another players' cards, there is angle shooting, and cheating.

People even do things that are illegal because they think it's profitable for them. They think it helps them and they don't care about anyone else.

This is why the responses trying to justify the fees or saying things like "I can understand why they are doing this and it makes sense for them" kind of annoy me. If I thought the way that Murren and some of those other guys think I'd be a total douchbag.

I suspect the poker player who also shops at their gift shops and high buck boutiques, reserves tables and bottle service at their clubs, and eats at their spendy restaurants that haven't been outsourced yet is very welcome at the MGM joints.

Good chance their software has already sorted the highly desirable player from the nits and fleas, and their parking comp offers are ready to go.

Last paragraph pretty much sums up what the executives are probably thinking.